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Discussion Starter #1
So, I could have msgd Edy directly, but thought the answer was worth being in the public record

Who what when where why?

More specifically,

Material?
Locations - anywhere you didn't, or didn't need to?
Easy mistakes?
Reasons?
Performance?

Mine isn't for a sound system, even tho I am halfway through installing one, just for general comfort. I was about to swap out a fender...then got to thinking...
 

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So, I could have msgd Edy directly, but thought the answer was worth being in the public record

Who what when where why?

More specifically,

Material?
Locations - anywhere you didn't, or didn't need to?
Easy mistakes?
Reasons?
Performance?

Mine isn't for a sound system, even tho I am halfway through installing one, just for general comfort. I was about to swap out a fender...then got to thinking...
It is always better not to direct a question to just one person.

That person's answer might not be the best answer out there, and you might loose better options.

If you still insists on directing the question to a specific person, better pm that person directly.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And then copy paste into a post? 50% of this was wanting to share, with the entire internet, a better Google result for "sound Dampen Chrysler minivan"...one that wasn't secretly sales-based
And, Edy recently did his entire van, systematically, if I'm not mistaken.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
However, Levy, I know you are one of the three ppl on here with a million experience points on these vans, so I'd love input from you or anyone else
 

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No, I do not have any experience on that matter. I also know Edy is a knowledgeable person, but even if he already did it, it doesn't means he did it the best possible way.

It better to ask everybody, those with experience should reply, then you choose the best of each reply.

For instance, I bought my F350 used (I don't buy new anymore, not worth it).

It had a sound system, it was also sound insulated.

The job was close to perfect, way too perfect to tell you the truth.

But it was something on my truck that didn't seemed right.

If you are familiar with Ford trucks, all doors are very easy to close, all doors close very nicely without any effort.

Not on my truck, it was something wrong. It was weird that all doors were a little hard to close, unless you open a window before you close a door.

Well, the Ford trucks have some little flappers (air valves) behind the rear seat. This valve would allow air pressure to escape to the atmosphere every time you close the doors.

Well, the job was done by one of "best" places in San Antonio, TX. They covered this valve by mistake, so air pressure created every time you close the door can not escape.

See, even the best could make a mistake.
 

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This is going to be a long post...

For sound deadening, the consensus is that you need 3 different materials to achieve the best result-
  • "CLD" or "Constrained Layer Damper" - Think Dynamat, Second-Skin, or FatMat. This is a heavy material, usually butyl or asphalt, that will adhere to the metal skin of the car and provide mass to the panel. Adding mass to a piece of sheet metal changes the frequency at which the panel resonates.
  • "MLV" or "Mass Loaded Vinyl" - a heavy material that absorbs vibration. The weight of the material makes it more difficult for sound to resonate through.
  • "CCF" or "Closed Cell Foam" - A very light and cushion material, it is placed on either side of the MLV to decouple it. Closed cell is used because it will not absorb water like open cell foam.
The idea is that you are going to stop large panels from transmitting audible frequencies by adding a CLD, and the MLV is going to absorb sound, and the CCF is going to prevent the MLV from rattling against other surfaces of the car.

I decided I wasn't going to spend the better part of $1000 on Dynamat. I used most of a 100sq/ft roll of Asphalt roofing shingle. It was one giant, 100lb Asphalt shingle rolled up, the bottom was covered in tar, and you just needed to peel the white plastic off the back to stick it to a surface. A big argument on the internet is adherence and off-gasing. Some people say that asphalt based materials you can buy cheap at Home Depot will create noxious fumes, where as a product like Dynamat is made of Butyl, and thus wont outgas. I put the asphalt on in February, and I never smelt it once through the blistering Texas Summer. The asphalt is also still stuck everywhere I put it. When I did the roof later on while replacing my headliner, I used Peel-n-Seal from Home Depot, I would definitely recommend that for anyone.
For MLV, I bought 2ft x 10ft rolls of 3/16" thick rubber mat from Home Depot.
For CCF, I bought laminate flooring foam under-layment from Home Depot. I used this on the doors and hatch, since they are exposed to moisture inside the door. For the rest of the interior, I used 1" thick cotton batting from the fabric store.


The most important areas are the doors, headliner, and rear quarter panels. From the factory, at least on high-line and mid-line LWB, the floorboard is almost entirely covered in CLD, there is batting under the carpet to act as a decoupler similar to CCF, and the carpet itself is of sufficient mass to be like MLV. The rear wheel wells are covered in MLV that is decoupled from the metal surface of the wheel well, though coverage isn't perfect. The firewall is covered in MLV decoupled from the metal, I didn't pull any up to check for CLD behind it. There are also a couple small plastic bags stuffed into the quarter panels containing batting, those probably just kill any echos inside. The doors have a small strip of CLD on the bottom of the outer skin. The rear quarter panel trim has a strip of batting on the back to prevent it from rattling against the MLV on the wheel well.

To do doors, you want to completely remove the door panel first.Now thoroughly clean the metal with alcohol. Apply large pieces of CLD to the outer skin of the door, and small strips to both sides of the inner skin. Dynamat suggests something like 20% coverage to be effective, so you don't need to completely cover everything. Also, you only need CLD on large, flexible panels. Metal that has lots of creases and bends formed into it for rigidity, wont benefit as much from CLD. Next step is to replace the factory Vapor/Moisture Barrier. I suggest laying the door panel on the CCF, marking the shape of the door panel, and then cutting out the CCF. The CCF needs holes cut into it so that all the snaps, screws, wiring, door handle mechanism, and whatever else can get through, it also needs to be slightly smaller than the door panel to fit under it. I then suggest using that trimmed CCF as a template to cut out 2 CCF pieces and 1 MLV piece for each door, left and right. Next step is to glue the three pieces per door, CCF-MLV-CCF, together. You need an elastic adhesive, perhaps silicone would work, but I used a rubberized 3M gasket adhesive. Once the three pieces are dried, apply a layer of adhesive around the door on any raised spots, and glue the assembly to the door. Now replace the door panel. Additionally, you can use a CLD on the backside of the door panel to deaden resonate frequencies in the plastic trim.

The sliding doors are similar, but I filled them with expanding foam in addition to the steps I used on the front doors. Just make sure to leave yourself room to get to any mechanisms in the future. Some people will say that expanding foam will trap moisture in the door and rust it out, but the sliding doors don't have windows that roll down and thus aren't as susceptible to moisture as the front doors.

On the rear quarter panels and D pillars, I used CLD, stuffed the space between the inner and outer skin with additional plastic bags filled with batting(my scraps actually), and used the 1 inch cotton batting instead of CCF since this area isn't prone to moisture. CLD on the back of all the plastic trim.

On the dash, I used rubber mat sandwiched between two layers of cotton batting.

The A, B, and C pillars, and the trim above the sliding door and tailgate windows, were stuffed with batting, and I stuck CLD on the back of the plastic trim.

For the Headliner, I coated the roof with CLD, then used silicone construction adhesive to glue FrostKing(radiant barrier and thermal insulator).


Now, let the flamewar of disagreement begin!
 

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This is going to be a long post...

I decided I wasn't going to spend the better part of $1000 on Dynamat. I used most of a 100sq/ft roll of Asphalt roofing shingle....
Now, let the flamewar of disagreement begin!
Luckily O.P. is only asking your advice, so no disagreement expected. He shall agree with everything you say.
 

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Well, there will be a lot of dissent and disagreement over the right way or the right product.
In reality, there are many methods and materials to achieve the same function at various budgets.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OH MY FREAKING GOSH. so...iyo...was it worth it? I believe you have the Rallye, did it have the factory foam? I don't have it in me to do this crazy job...I guess you could say I was going to half ass it...plus, we get insane moisture buildup from sleeping inside, with polyiso/mylar insulation over the windows, so I need to be careful...but I'll still probably do some, over time perhaps all. I was going to use that asphalt stuff, hadn't heard about the offgassing tho...still, there's no way I'm paying for dynamat. Or even the 'discount' version...
 

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For thermal insulation, either the cotton batting from the fabric store or Frost King from home depot would probably give you the best results. You can't use the cotton batting on the doors because of moisture. You could use expanding foam in the sliding doors, quarter panels and liftgate, just don't cover up the electrical or mechanical components there in.

Instead of Dynamat, I'd recommend the Peel-n-Seal from Lowes. I think it's $10-$20 for roll. Foil-backed asphalt instead of butyl, it's almost exactly the same as Dynamat in function. It's imperative with any solution to clean the metal for good adhesion.

For sound deadening, you're best with a triple layer, cotton batting or foam on either side of a heavy, flexible material.
 

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And here is a link to a Dynamat spreadsheet on our vans.
Damn it!! I thought I lost the document (new computer, several different ones) and went online searching for it. That's a link to my server where I uploaded it when Dynamat took it permanently offline. Should've looked there too.

Anyhow, the van is finally repaired (short of welding the rusted out door sills) and now that the exhaust is whisper-quiet it's time to assess the soundproofing issue in a larger scale. Two shop packs of STP Gold and some MLV sandwiched in CCF are waiting to go in. Pics in my earlier thread were pretty bad so I probably take a few more when the work progresses. It'll mostly follow Dynamat patterns, with an addition of marine grade aluminum backing plates on door openings.
 

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People, if you are using anything from home depot, Lowes etc, don't forget that product might not be fire proof, check before you install.

Many moons ago, I used coconut fiber in my 1973 Ford Maverick. Man, I couldn't believe the big difference, it was quiet. Still haven't seen anything better.

Would I use it again?

Probably not, unless it was treated to resist fire.
 

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True, but it's also worth considering that the entire interior is constructed of flammable ABS plastic, there is a 20 gallon tank of combustible gasoline under the passenger compartment, the engine compartment contains several gallons of flammable oils, and even the tires will burn violently.
If there is fire under the carpet or inside the doors, the entire vehicle was probably already an inferno anyways.

Roughly speaking, the risk of dieing in an automobile fire in the USA is twice that of being struck by lightning.
 

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True, but it's also worth considering that the entire interior is constructed of flammable ABS plastic, there is a 20 gallon tank of combustible gasoline under the passenger compartment, the engine compartment contains several gallons of flammable oils, and even the tires will burn violently.
If there is fire under the carpet or inside the doors, the entire vehicle was probably already an inferno anyways.

Roughly speaking, the risk of dieing in an automobile fire in the USA is twice that of being struck by lightning.

Believe it or not, plastic trims inside the vehicle are flame resistant as required by NFPA.

Everything else also must be approved by NFPA.

Even the plastic fuel tank is fire resistant.

Regarding being struck by lighting:

 

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Believe it or not, plastic trims inside the vehicle are flame resistant as required by NFPA.

Everything else also must be approved by NFPA.

Even the plastic fuel tank is fire resistant.

Regarding being struck by lighting:

I meant die from lightning. You're 5 times more likely to be struck by lightning than die in an automobile fire, you're twice as likely to die from an automobile fire than from a lightning strike, in the USA.
 

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I meant die from lightning. You're 5 times more likely to be struck by lightning than die in an automobile fire...

And you know why?

Thanks to NFPA that requires vehicle manufacturers to comply with fire resistant standards.

But by adding flammable aftermarket materials you are defeating the purpose.

You are raising the odds, don't push it!
 

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All right, here we go...

I just finished a long(ish) day cutting 1mm 6061 aluminum sheet into pieces that cover every orifice in sliding doors, glued a layer of STP Gold butyl on them and used them as rigid covers underneath another layer of STP Gold, which covers more or less the whole door. The sound of closing them is a very reassuring THUMP now. This should exceed a basic Dynamat Extreme setup by a decent margin.

I also cut two pieces to cover the holes in front doors. The one that replaces OEM 5x7 speaker bracket was cut to measure for a 6½" (sub)woofer. Unfortunately the Tangband W6-1139SIF I had in mind didn't fit (as doesn't W69-1042J in the rear, they both have too much mounting depth) so I went with a bit more mundane option, a pair of Ground Zero GZIW 165X-II:s. Still 11mm or so of excursion and they'll be connected in parallel for 2ohm, driven by the fifth, 370W RMS "sub" channel of the class D amp so once the door is properly sealed, I'd imagine they'll go low and loud enough for the intended purpose.

The rear "enclosure" of 6x9":s was a bit of a shock. There really isn't one, it's acoustically short circuited with the exception of a trashbag-style bag with glassfiber insulation in it and it barely covers the space between the jack and wheelwell. If that's what Chrysler though would work, I'll make it easy for myself and up the ante. A much larger similar bag, heat-sealed and stuffed to fill the whole space between the speaker and the jack.

I also ordered a pair of Focal 5.25" and 6x9" coaxials, 5.25" for the dash and 6x9" for the rear. I'll probably have to cover the inside of the dash panel with STP to give the 5.25:s a fighting chance to work as proper midranges. Fortunately the amp has a built-in low- and high-pass filters so once everything is said and done I'll boot up REW and a calibration mic and see how well it'll set up.

Phew. It'll probably be pretty quiet when everything's done and while the audio setup didn't turn out to be what I planned, it'll still be a massive improvement over OEM Infinity. Not to mention that I also realized that the passenger door 5x7" is blown, the voice coil shows infinite resistance. The speaker-mounted amp works, though, but it's useless for anything semi-serious. I still want to keep everything stealth, drivers mounted in OEM locations and nothing is visible, except for the amp mounted under driver's seat.

Tinkering with the minivan is a great way to spend time while waiting for the COVID panic to calm down a bit.
 

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In case someone is still reading this thread, here's an update.

I got all the doors done. Aluminum plate + STP. I also added a layer of STP on the inside of the top dash panel now. The first time when I closed the doors was fairly impressive, old "vault" metaphor came to mind, and all sounds from my garage were gone, instantly and completely.

Dash 5.25" Focals and front door 6.5" Ground Zeros are now installed and cabled properly. I couldn't resist temptation to hook up the power and try them out. Donald Fagen's I.G.Y. and Pink Floyd's Another Brick in the Wall sounded good. Damn good. There's some equalization to be done but it's already fairly close.

There's still some more cabling to do. Rear speakers and a number of lighter/USB plug contacts throughout the van, in rear gloveboxes and center console. I also got a 20kg bag of heavy mineral wool and a few rolls of different trashbags to stuff the rear enclosures.

All in all it begins to look like a proper van again. Most of the welding is done, cooling/HVAC system is refurbished with new parts, exhaust, catalytic converter and exhaust manifolds are new/refurbished and more or less everything has received a thorough once-over. I'm looking forward to taking it for a test drive next week and have the MOT done.

Here are a few pictures, nothing much but they may give an idea how the soundproofing was done:

Passenger side front door, some STP in place:
IMG_20200318_190335 (Custom).jpg


Driver's side front door, aluminum plates installed:
IMG_20200319_002543 (Custom).jpg


Driver's side front door, STP installed:
IMG_20200319_183239 (Custom).jpg


Driver's side front door, details:
IMG_20200319_002547 (Custom).jpg
 

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Just ditch the rear tweeters and 6×9s all together. Rear speakers degrade the quality of the music for anyone other than rear passengers.

I did the roof too, now it doesn't sound like I'm inside a beer can whenever it rains.

DSP made the biggest difference though; proper time delays, crossovers, level balancing, and EQ on each individual channel.
 
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