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help, she's getting rusty on the rockers

64K views 169 replies 14 participants last post by  Jeepman 
#1 ·
Well it was nice out today and I decided to find that rocker panel access cover. I started on the drivers side which has close to no rust, but the passenger side on the other hand...

This is the drivers side access cover.


This is how it looks on the drivers side rocker panel inside(don't know how well u can see)


Now onto the passenger side where things went downhill fast...

This is the access cover, note the mud and rust buildup inside


holy look at the rust


When I put my hand in the passenger rocker panel I kept scooping out mud, this is just some of it


A little more in depth


This is how the passenger side rocker looks from the outside:



In all the drivers side rocker has close to no rust and theirs no mud in the drivers side rocker, but on the passenger side it's getting rusty and when I stick my hand in the rocker I keep taking out mud...whats going on? Whats causing all the mud buildup? How can I save the rockers from the inside? At this rate my engine will outlast the body which is not in bad shape at the moment excluding the rust buildup on the passenger side..help, I don't want it to get worse! Thanks
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Hey 04anniversaryedition,

Is this plug from the backside of the rocker panel? I'm not at all familiar with the 04. I was planning on checking mine - the drain plugs on the backside - this week but didn't have time to get the van in the shop. I did feel underneath mine and there's a plug - a sort of rounded end rectangle on mine. Is there any evidence of a hole in the rocker panel that the dirt could have entered? Just out of interest, did you buy this van brand new from a dealer, or was it used or from an auction?

You are on the right track with removing the mud. Can you get a sprayer wand angled in there and remove as much as possible. Maybe then, you could spray some alcohol-based substance in there to dry it out. Then you would be in a better position to explore the extent of the damage. Are there any soft spots along the length of your rocker panels? Ask Jeepman what to do. He seems to have a LOT of experience/knowledge about the lower body construction of these vans. I'm just in the learning stage about the rocker panels and how to best protect them well into the future.

Good luck and please let us know anything you find out.

Adam

EDIT: After looking again at picture 2, I can see through to your driveway. Is there supposed to be a plug in that smaller hole? It looks kind of uniform in shape to be a rust hole. Just guessing though.
 
#10 ·
NO this plug is from the middle of the van, I just bend down and I saw it, there are more at each end of the van but they seem stuck, I need someones help/suggestion on getting that out. The drain plug should be the same since their the same body style, no there are no soft spots and I don't want to have any. I did buy the van used with 78,215kms on her, I thought you knew since you commented in my thread on it being paid off http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sh...inally-been-paid-off-as-of-27-3-13?highlight= Regarding picture 2 that was looking into the access hole, and that smaller hole is a drain hole from the sliding door track, so your looking up not down. I currently have no holes in the rockers and want to keep it that way
 
#4 ·
I think that is rust dust, not mud. Put some compressed air in your rocker panel and you will see that dust coming up through the drain holes in the sliding door track area.

By access cover are you talking about the larger cover (vent?) on the back side of the rocker panel near the middle (front to back)?

Do you have a fiberop borescope (fiberscope) to look in there with?

Welcome to the world of rusty rocker panels.
 
#11 ·
Oh i'm more than sure thats mud, it looks like mud, feels like mud,and has the same texture as mud the drivers side had pretty much rust dust. Yes, that is the cover/access panel from the middle of the van. couldn't get the ones at the other ends to come loose, help!!! and I have nothing to look into it unfortunately, is their a way I can get out of the world of rusty rocker panels?

Find one of the digital inspection cameras "(borescope (fiberscope)" to let you look into the holes when you get the foam out.

The prices have come down considerably and you can use it for other things.

You can take your 20% coupon and go to Harbor Freight and get one.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=inspection
unfortunately I live in Canada and we have no Harbor Freight so all of that is basically useless to me.But thanks for the effort though, i'll be on a hunt for one as long as the price is right.
 
#5 ·
Find one of the digital inspection cameras "(borescope (fiberscope)" to let you look into the holes when you get the foam out.

The prices have come down considerably and you can use it for other things.

You can take your 20% coupon and go to Harbor Freight and get one.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=inspection
 

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#6 · (Edited)
Well I did a little more investigating and work on it today and didn't like what I saw at the sliding door track.

When I went to see what was going on the passenger sliding door track my eyes caught a set of wires tucked at the back of the van, when I pulled out the wires I realized they were for the door locks and such, makes sense as the van was hit at the side (rear quarter panel) before we bought the van, the passenger sliding door lock never worked and they had to remove the sliding to fix it, guess they were lazy to remove it properly and tape the ends up!!! seriously this could cause a fire or electrical problems. just pi$$e$ me off.


Look at that, I finally found out how the mud entered the rockers (I believe) the sliding door track was full of mud, don't ask me how the mud got there cause I don't know, and the drain holes were clogged with mud.


After I cleaned all that mud up, I dug out an entire mini shovel (garden shovel) of dirt...now lets see what comes out of the rocker!
 
#7 ·
Well I spent exactly 20 minutes scooping mud out of the passenger rocker panel by hand, this is how much I pulled out


I kept flooding the sliding door track area with water, all the drain holes are no longer clogged. The water came out pitch brown at first but after a while the water came clear


now on to the drivers side, not much mud, but did pull out a rubber band. I don't even know how that got there


flooding the sliding track on the drivers side. Note the color of the water coming out


Thats all I did for today as time ran out and it was getting dark out. But what I did was take the bottle of rust check and spray that $@#t into the drain holes, gonna wait a week to see what builds up in the rocker panels.
 
#9 ·
Aside from that I did other things, one of those things were lubing bolts, hinges etc... I did apply rust check behind the taillights


these are the products I used today
.

Is there anywhere else I should lube or spray rust check? One place that came in my mind but wasn't sure as to if I should spray rust check or not is at the hatch, in between the glass, basically where it separates from the metal. I've noticed many of the 4th gens rusting from there and was wondering if I should spray rust check there.

Anyways regarding those access panels, those were in the middle of the van, and the ones at the end of the front of the rear and front of the van, I could not get open, it was pretty much sealed or glued shut, even a flat head screw driver couldn't get it loose. Jeepman I need your rocker panel help!!! please, how do I get those access panels open? I will try to keep this thread active, as long as I have time to work on the van and the weather doesn't screw around with me this thread will be active. Thanks for all your help guys its really appreciated, no holes yet and i'd like to keep it that way!

This is the position the van was today

Just got back from lugging approx 1900 pounds in the back of the van (not towing), of a shed, 8 bags of cement, 10 bags pf 50 litre black earth (on sale at rona), and grocery all with the back seats out and me sitting back there. yes I did keep the van in the "3" selection all the way through to prevent strain etc... Spent 6 hours of the day in stores and on the road. I LOVE THIS VAN!
 
#12 ·
Princess Auto may have the inspection camera for you Canadians.

The access hole plugs are held on by clips but mostly by the foam.
Get a good pry bar and hammer and pop them off.

Dorman sells a replacement harness for the (2004-3007 models) which you may need to modify the electrical connectors for it to fit properly. This is cheaper than the dealer.
For 2001-2003, the connector near the pillar is 10 pin instead of 8 pin for the later years. The harness will work, but will need to be modified.


Dorman 747-310 Left; w/Power Sliding Door

Dorman 747-311 Right; w/Power Sliding Door

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Dorman 747-310

I posted some pictures in the thread I mentioned earlier, you may want to look at them.

Slideshow with pics
http://tinyurl.com/8r8o5fu
 
#22 ·
Thanks, I'll try to pry them out, regarding the harness I'll just leave it and get one from a junk yard as it's not worth repairing since everyone's used to opening it manually, and I did check out the pics in your earlier thread and it was a help to me
 
#14 · (Edited)
I have worked on the rocker panels for my 2002 over the years. I have to do a little touch up on them this year that will take a couple of hours. They have obviously weakened some because of rust. I don't let Repair/Tire Shops use the vertical seam for their hoist points. They shouldn't anyway because there are tabs there that shouldn't be bent out of site. Previous rust protection by shops (Canadian Tire using Corrosion Free for one) didn't do a thorough job of spraying the rocker panels, otherwise I would't have had the problem.

I had to do major work on the 2007 last year due to rusted rocker panels. The drain holes for the rear rocker panels were plugged with sealant from the factory. The rocker panels had never been rust protected. I bought the vehicle in May, 2011 and had been mislead to believe that the rocker panels were filled with foam and couldn't be sprayed. That info came from a Rust Check Shop Owner and a Chrysler Body Shop Service Manager. Lesson learned: Never listen to the guys that haven't actually been there/done that, look for yourself.

My work is covered in this Thread: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25322-Fiberglassing-and-Fluid-Filming-can-be-fun

I wonder if you Van hasn't been immersed in muddy water some time at that back left corner. Otherwise the door seals may have been defective/missing which allowed lots of dust to get in the sliding door track area while driving on gravel roads.

Once your drain holes are clear, compressed air at about 90 psi will do a good job of blowing dry dust out the drain/vent holes. After that it's spraying a double douse of fluid Film in there using about 90 psi air pressure and a proper spray gun. That can be done through the drain holes. (two per rocker panel) or holes that exist elsewhere or that you may drill yourself. There are vinyl plugs available for various size holes, including 3/8" and 1/2" diameter. If you don't have the equipment or can't borrow/rent it, I would suggest that you check out the Krown Rustproofers in your area to see what you think, an older experienced Applicator is likely the way to go, and have them spray your rocker panels thoroughly.

The two drain holes per side are not enough, I have seen smaller vehicles with lots more, so additional drain holes can be drilled in. My driveway slopes up so any moisture in the rocker panels will flow to the back and accumulate there, and sit there as it's past the drain hole. keep that in mind when drilling drain holes. You can plug those holes if you want with the vinyl plugs mentioned previously. That's something to keep in mind when parking a vehicle, mix it up as to slope.

Princess Auto has borescopes / inspection cameras / Fiberops: http://datasheets.globalspec.com/ds/2614/PrincessAutoLimited
Sometimes they have on on sale, such as this one, which I bought for $69.99: http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8428393/Video+Scopes/9+mm+Inspection+Camera
I haven't used it on my vehicles yet, but mostly for tracking down a plumbing leak in a Friend's wall. I could use it to look inside the rocker panel (with a big enough access hole) or check for leaks underneath, or to observe pulley wobble. It's a fun tool.

Another area to be concerned about is the dog leg area to the rear or the rocker panel. There is some foam in there that can trap moisture, I spray that area with Fluid Film. The rear hatch and doors can be sprayed through the drain holes.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Well...just finished drenching my rocker panels with ATF. Here is what I did:

I removed the plugs between the 2 sliding doors and used a screwdriver and plastic stick to bust up as much of the foam as I could, pushing the stick both forward and backward until I felt no resistance. I used my shop vac to suck out as much of the little pieces of foam as I could. Using a turkey baster and a hand pump, I started filling with ATF with the van pointing nose up the driveway. I noticed AFT dripping out along the seam at a few locations and at least as far back as where the foam would be in the dogleg. I also poured ATF in the holes in the sliding door track area. I repeated this process on both sides of the van and continued to observe dripping. I then turned the van around, removed the plugs I had previously drilled in the top of the rocker panels and repeated the same process, again noticing dripping. After that, I removed all the other plugs I had previously installed and literally poured ATF in those. This includes areas above where the foam would be between the doors and the dogleg section.

As I haven't figured out how to add pics, I'll just put these links in and hope it works...

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/acbent/Plug3_zps338480e9.jpg

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/acbent/Plug_zpsa704e08f.jpg

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/acbent/Plug2_zps6ec252fb.jpg


I am cautiously optimistic that the ATF has made it to most sections of the rocker panel. This I will confirm when I have the van on the hoist and can remove the various plugs on the inner side of the rocker panel and if I'm not convinced at that stage, I will get out the drill and go up from below into the dogleg and sliding door/front door sections and explore. I do not know that I have the time or resources to remove all the foam, so I'll probably do my best to get the areas soaked with ATF or rust check.

All in all, I used about a gallon of use ATF.
 
#24 ·
06DGC, thank you for your useful post, I can't believe I never noticed those access holes, guess thats on my to do list. I currently also am using photobucket to post my pics and if you want help on how to add the pics I can PM you, how bout that?
 
#16 ·
As I indicated in my thread, the rockers are not completely filled with foam. I think the important thing is to clear a path through the foam on the bottom of the rocker on the inside.
This will allow whatever you put in there to do its job.
The inside bottom is where I found the most rust.
You can accomplish this with a long thin fiberglass rod.

I used this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-16-inch-x-33-ft-fiberglass-wire-running-kit-65326.html
 
#17 ·
Yes, I found your thread very informative. Thank you for that. I am seeing oil drip out from the areas where the foam is as well as other sections of the rocker panel, so I think gravity is at least getting it to the pinched seem part of the rocker panel - the lowest point of the panel. Where my concern lies is whether or not the oil will then wick upwards between the panel and the remaining foam making contact with the inner panel - the interior vertical metal surfaces - if that makes sense. I'm sercretly hoping that the ATF will dissolve/degrade some of the foam and then creep everywhere, but that's probably wishful thinking.
 
#18 ·
That foam is tough stuff, it is not like the stuff in the can.
There is an access hole on the pillar between the doors that you can test the oil on the foam. Just pull the plug out and you will see foam.
I do not think the ATF will dissolve it or absorb it readily.
 
#19 ·
There is an access hole on the pillar between the doors that you can test the oil on the foam.
I believe those are the plugs I took out and worked at removing the foam. I too doubt that the fluid will have any effect on the foam. I'd have to say though that I bet it's pretty well saturated with the amount I put in there. Either that or there's a gallon of ATF sloshing around in my rocker panel, minus, of course, the stuff that's dripping out.
 
#21 ·
One thing I observed is that there are inside layers of steel in the rocker panel for reinforcement. It is not one big hollow tube. Thus you, cannot reach the bottom of the rocker from a top plug.
One of the best access holes to push a fiberglass rod through is the one directly in front of the rear tire, and the large plugs on the side of the rocker panel under the car.
When you open the sliding door, there is a piece of foam behind the track towards the rear that gives you some access to the dogleg.
I removed all of my foam, but noticed considerable rust on the inside bottom of the rocker from front to rear.
 
#27 ·
I have drilled holes in the tops and bottoms of my rocker panels. That extra steel may be where the jack points are. Using wands and 90 psi spray helps throw the rustproofing around inside the enclosure.
For those using spray bombs (rattle cans), the straws can be bent some to get the material to go where you want it. Also longer straws are available at http://www.littleredstraw.com/
 
#26 ·
I want to say Thank you to all of you on your tips on how I can save my rockers and such, it makes me feel more confident on doing this job, but unfortunately for me the job will have to wait for a few days because of the rain, school, and other various things. I will set out to buy other items needed for the job, and probably will resume on the job either Wednesday or Thursday if the rain holds up But don't worry i'll post whatever I find and do, this is one thread that will probably help thousands and I want this thread to be a guideline on how to save your rockers, for those who are looking for help. Once again thanks for your help and suggestions everyone.
 
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#31 ·
The ATF that I poured into my rockers is now creeping its way up into my wheel wells on the outside. This is a good sign that it has made it to the back of the dogleg from either the rocker panels or from above the dogleg where I actually poured it in as well.

I did remove two plugs on the backside of the rocker panel - one small and one large - under the sliding door foam zone. It was bone dry there so i busted away some foam and soaked the area with Coat and protect. I'm pretty sure I managed to scrape away a pretty good sized path from front to back. For now, I content that my rockers and dogleg areas are protected.
 
#33 ·
Totally agree.

I was impressed with how my rockers have no visible rust even around the plug holes. This makes it all the more worth it to me.
 
#34 ·
hope you guys didn't think I forgot about this thread, but anyways after reading some previous posts I learned that their is a access hole in between the doors

This is on the drivers side:


sorry if its a bit blurry


passenger side:





Now 06DGC this question is for you, is this what you were talking about when you said in between the doors? can you please tell me what are the inside plastic door sills, I kinda forgot what it was with school and such, and where would the access holes be then? Thanks.
 
#35 ·
Now 06DGC this question is for you, is this what you were talking about when you said in between the doors?.
It is indeed. I got a lot of foam out of there both towards the front and back. However, to do a thorough job, I also removed the large plug on the back of the rocker maybe 6 inches forward of this foam section, and a smaller one that seemed almost right beneath where the sliding door and front door meet. I removed more foam with a, probably 3/16" ish piece of drill rod bent to fit in the hole.

can you please tell me what are the inside plastic door sills, I kinda forgot what it was with school and such, and where would the access holes be then? Thanks.
The door sills are those plastic strips about 3 inches wide that run between your door posts. You can see them in your first and third pics. Your carpet is tucked under them. I don't think there is any benefit after all to removing the door sills. I think that these holes are only above the sliding door track. You could look though, they pry up pretty easily. I would recommend, however, drilling a 1/2 inch holes in the top of your rocker panel in about the center of your front door rockers. This gives you easy access to soak your front part of the rocker panels with your rust protection fluid. You can buy 1/2 plastic plugs at most auto body supply outfits.
 
#37 ·
Vehicle Vehicle door Automotive exterior Car Automotive tire
Drilled / plugged access hole to the dogleg area, also one in the door.
 
#38 ·
View attachment 7714 Drilled / plugged access hole to the dogleg area, also one in the door.
I would say that one in the dogleg is in almost exactly the same position as mine. What I found in there seemed more like foam rubber than the expanding foam - kind of like the folded piece of foam that at the back of the sliding door track by the dogleg section but maybe it was just degraded spray foam though it was black and more spongy. Of course I've been soaking that for a couple years with rust check etc. I still managed to get a good half quart of ATF in there with my hand pump and could have added more. I also accessed the rubber plug above that and poured in additional ATF. The environmentalists would kill me. I've been dripping for days from the rocker panels - on to lots of old towels and plastic of course. :ThumbsUp:
 
#39 ·
Krown rustproofing drips for a couple of days after application. Most other products are dripless, for the most part, and migrate with the heat. I can get in that area quite easily with the wands I have. Also can get to it by removing the taillights and the jack compartment cover.
 
#40 · (Edited)
Also can get to it by removing...the jack compartment cover.
I'll have to take another look at this. I sprayed in there last year but it appeared to me to be a sealed seam, so I never went back there. Is there a way to actually get into the rear quarter from there? Or, did you drill your own hole?

Another thing I noticed when I had the van up on the hoist was a 1/2 plug covering a hole that was drilled directly up into the rear quarter panel section directly above the tire inside the wheel well. As the plug looks just like one of the ones I use, I assume the rust check center did this the first time I had it done.
 
#41 ·
So I believe this is the hole your talking about in the door sills


When I popped the rear door sills I saw what I appear to be black tape of some sort. If I lift up that tape will I get access to the rocker panel like the front.

Will continue with the project tomorrow as I will be acquiring the red bottle of rust check (thanks to 06DGC for telling me to buy the red bottle) you guys are all awesome people and I appreciate your help, with I had people like you in my neighborhood
 
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#42 · (Edited)
When I popped the rear door sills I saw what I appear to be black tape of some sort. If I lift up that tape will I get access to the rocker panel like the front.

Will continue with the project tomorrow as I will be acquiring the red bottle of rust check (thanks to 06DGC for telling me to buy the red bottle) you guys are all awesome people and I appreciate your help, with I had people like you in my neighborhood
I don't think those holes go anywhere but into the sliding door track. I dumped about a liter of ATF right into my sliding door tracks and it found its way into all the holes into the rocker panel. I just moved it back and forth with an old cloth and all of it went into the holes. I then used paper towels to clean up the track. I parked my van up hill and down hill so the stuff would run in bother directions. This seems the easiest way to get stuff into the rockers - at least in the back half.

I like the red stuff as it seems thin so logic tells me it will creep well. I was in at the auto body supply store yesterday picking up some 1/2" plugs as I had run out. I gave my neighbor my last 10 or so as he wants to rust-proof his Dodge Ram. He saw me doing all this stuff on mine and got interested. Anyway, while I was at the store, the counter guy says, "Come over here, I want to show you the best product for rust protection". He showed me Fluid Film and I said I had used it before. I asked him about its ability to creep into seams etc and it said it works great for that. I think I'll keep using RC red and my used ATF for panels but am going to switch to FF for underbody spraying - being sure to get into every hole, above the spare etc etc.

On another note, I had my van into the transmission shop yesterday to address the drip in the aftermarket drain plug. They dropped the pan, used an pneumatic sander on both mating surfaces, put new washers on plug, re-installed the pan - without a gasket, sealant only, topped up with ATF+4 and test drove the van. I asked how much I owed them and they said "You're good to go". I like this place! They said if I had any more problems to come back. It hasn't leaked yet.

Finally, thanks 04anniversaryedition for the tip on how to get my picture uploads to work. You were right, it works great with Chrome. I think my version of IE is way outdated.

Adam
 
#43 ·
06DGC your welcome, I acquired a new computer and IT does the same thing. But anyways I acquired the bottle of red rust check and am now ready to finish working on the rocker panels starting on Monday because the drum brakes are being changed tomorrow by my neighbor and we're building a shed tomorrow. SO HANG IN THERE GUYS
 
#44 ·
That's great! When you insert the little straw in the spray tip, make sure it's well seated. They have been known to fly off under the pressure of the spray. I'm sure I have veritable graveyards of little red straws in the various panels of my vehicles. I find the straws bend nicely too to get in at different angles. I also keep as many of the old ones as I can incase the above happens.

Someone posted about a company where you can buy longer little red straws - something like The Little Red Straw Company or similar. I'm going to investigate that.

Once in a while the local parts store offers Rust Check red at $5.99/can - not the tiny ones either.
 
#46 ·
I have some of those long "little red straws". Ordered them last year.
For my Fluid Film, I had to lightly sand the end of the straw so that it would fit the aerosol cap.
No use fighting and forcing it in.
I also save the caps and straws for spray cans. You never know when you have to improvise.
 
#47 ·
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