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Water Pump--Broken Bolts

30K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  dw8 
#1 ·
My water pump recently had a catastrophic failure. There was no warning that I'm aware of. My daughter had borrowd the car because her's was in an accident. She left our house, drove no more than a mile to go home, heard a terrible noise, turned around and came back. It sounded like somebody had put a dozen bolts in a paint can and was rolling it. The pump bearings were suddenly gone, and the shaft wobbled. It leaked badly.

The van is a 1995 Grand Caravan SE with a 3.3 engine. It has a fairly recent, 3 years?, rebuilt transmission.

The pump came off, once I removed the belt and the tensioner. I'll have to take a look at the tensioner because it has no spring action. I moved it with great difficulty, and it did not spring back.

The pump came off easily, but two bolts broke in the process. The broken bolts are the bottom one, in the 5-6 o'clock position, and another at about the 11 o'clock position. I think the bottom bolt is critical, because of belt tension in an upward direction. The top bolt is not critical, for the same reason.

I was fairly easily able to drill the bolt center with a right angle attachment for the drill and a titanium bit.

The current situation. I'm stuck. My easy out snapped off flush with the surface. The easy out will be very difficult or impossible to drill. It's a small very hard surface in a softer surrounding surface.

So to my question. What are my options now. We want to save the van. It runs well other than the water pump. What is my next step?
 
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#2 ·
Really need heat with easy outs..

How many bolts hold the pump on? I've never done the pump on my engine so I have no idea.

If there are many bolts, I would leave it be. Put some RTV on the gaskets, lightly spin the other bolts in and let it set up. When it is hard, torque the other bolts down and run it as is. It may also be good to modify the radiator cap to not pressurize the system so it does not force leaks to happen. My van runs no cooling system pressure and is more than happy doing it.

People may scold me for this half a$$ed response, but since it is not worth the effort to have the bolts extracted, it may be worth it to try some ******* engineering.
 
#3 ·
Really need heat with easy outs..
I forgot to mention, I used a heat gun to heat the area surrounding the bolt. I tried to heat the surrounding area without heating the bolt itself. The objective being to get that area to expand while the bolt did not. I got it hot enough to where the PB Blaster sizzled when I sprayed it on. I was beginning to get steam coming out the bottom radiator hose connection on the water pump.

The new water pump came with a new "O" ring, maybe 3 inch diameter. Do you think I should use the RTV in addition to the "O" rign?
 
#5 ·
I learned early on to never use easy outs. They just never worked for me. I always drill the bolt and use a tap to clean the hole. You may still be able to drill the easy out with a cobalt bit, but it may be necessary to put the bit in a jig to keep it from wandering. Make a little jig out of solid steel flat rod from home depot. I think the thickness of the rod is 1/8". Cut it long enough to span the distance between the hole where the easy out is and an open hole. Drill two holes on it, one to bolt into the open hole, the other one to guide the drill bit. For the hole right above the radiator hose, I think you can clamp the end of the rod to keep it from moving at all, then just drill it out. For people who need pictures go to my site http://veritas.selfip.com:8080/show...tenance/fixes/waterpump/water_pump_cavity.jpg
 
#6 ·
I was advised by a Dodge mechanic to put a thin layer of RTV on both of the o-ring gaskets for the cross-over pipe on my 3.0 because of potential leakage. Seems to be working fine after 600 miles or so. I don't know if the same recommendation would be made for this engine or not, just thought I'd throw it out there.
 
#7 ·
You might try using Permatex Ultra Gray RTV on the pump instead or regular blue or black.The Gray sets up a lot tougher than either of the other two.

You might be able to use a small drill bit to drill into the bolt beside the easy out and work it (the easy out) loose with a small punch or chisel.Then you can start drilling the bolt with larger bits until you can clean the hole with a tap.There are left hand bits for sale that will sometimes bring the broken bolt out as the new hole is being drilled.
Beware using cobalt drills because they are harder but more brittle and can break easily if bent.
 
#8 · (Edited)
If a "high end" auto engine rebuilder is nearby, they should have a machine shop and talking to them may help, or maybe they can do it for you. IF NOT

===================

1) First I would get a left handed drill bit (diamond). The left handed bit forces will work in the removal direction for both the EasyOut and bolt. THIS IS CRITICAL.
2) If the EasyOUt surface is NOT flat and you can get to it I would attempt to grind it flat with an angle grinder. I'd try this on another easyout first in a vice to see how the hardness grinds, but should be OK.
3) I'd follow NoMoneyNoHunny's idea of predrilling a piece of flat steel with a hole and another hole to bolt the steel in position so the bit doesn't wander -- -- If the bolt broke below the surface of the water pump bolt hole and if there is enough hole to keep the bit from wantering you may be able to use it. My preference is the steel as I recall the water pump housing is aluminum.
4) Use a center punch to put a dimple in the EasyOut. Again I would try this on another EasyOut in a "Vice" first to see the kind of forces needed to put a dimple.
5) I would periodically squirt a generous amount of PB and let it sit as long as you can -- couple days -- before I start drilling.
6) Take the drilling real slow both in speed (if you have a variable) and depth so you don't wander off center..

7) Lastly a tip. THe next time you remove a bolt that appears stuck, STOP, and then substitute a breaker bar for your ratchet. Instead of pulling onthe breaker bar with your hand, use a rubber, leather, or plastic hammer to give the breaker bar a good strike. This will normally break the bolt loose and IMHO has save many a situation your in.. If you can't get the hammer to the bar, I normally keep some pieces of wood (furring strips work great) around to use so I can position on the end of the breaker bar and also use the hammer. WORKS GREAT.

Good Luck.
 
#9 ·
One other thought since I can't edit above.

If you can remove the other bolts and then remove the water pump this will just leave the broken bolt / Easy Out protruding. You "may" then be able to use a pair of vice grips to remove the broken EasyOut,-- OR -- better yet get a bolt extraction tool that will grab the outside of the bolt and rachet it out.

One last thought if drilling is required. Similiar to NoMoneyNoHunny's idea, if the bolt is protuding and you were able to grind it flat, I've used a metal sleeve where the ID of the sleeve is just slightly larger than the OD of the bolt. Naturally you need to prick punch the bolt head first., then slip the sleeve over the bolt. This keeps the bit from accidentally wandering off where you don't want it.

I've never tried it, but you may also be able to put several sleeves inside eash other, such that the last sleeve will keep the bit centered.

I'm also sure you recognize that you start off with a small bit and work up in small bit increments.
You NEVER want to just drill one hole with the final bit size.
 
#10 ·
All good ideas, but time is running short. We need the Caravan back on the road. I think we will probably put it on a stretcher and take it to a friend's shop, let him work on it. The final answer might very well be a new/wrecking yard timing cover.

I'll try to attach a picture. The pump is off, so the bolt in question in flush with the surface of the timing cover. We'll see how the picture attachment works. This picture was taken before I completed the drilling and broke the easyout.
 

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#11 ·
If the cover comes off, then that would be much easier to work with. Also the top bolt looks like some heat and vice grips would maybe get it out. The bottom one looks like it would need to be drilled out and tapped, or maybe helicoiled if it is bad.
 
#12 ·
I finally took the easy way out. I put the Caravan on a stretcher and took it to a friend's shop. He changed out the timing cover for one from the wrecking yard. He reused the oil pump (the original was in better shape than the one which came attached to the replacement cover), and the new water pump I supplied.

All is well once again. The rush is the fact that my daughter and grandsons are coming in from Maine, as soon as the east coast digs itself out. They've had two flights canceled so far. They were supposed to be here last night. Second flight was today. Now they're due in Tuesday. What a nightmare. My wife was on the phone for an hour last night with a very delightful and very helpful young lady at JetBlue rearranging reservations. The young lady at JB went WAY beyond what her job calls for. :ThumbsUp: We are extremely impressed and thankful. My wife will write a glowing letter of appreciation this morning. And that's one of many reasons we like JB.

So, end of story. The Caravan is running, and the family is coming.:beerchug:
 
#13 ·
I was just a bit premature. One problem remained. The engine started spewing oil, lots of oil, at the oil filter seal. It went back to the shop on a stretcher.

The pressure relief valve, which came as part of the replacement timing cover, had jammed. It would not drain off the excess oil pressure, so that blew out through the filter seal. He went up through the pan, did a destructive removal of the relief valve, and installed a new one.

All seems well again. I'm certainly happy that I know a good and an honest mechanic/shop.
 
#16 ·
I had this happen on my 94 Voyager, except four bolts snapped. I had no choice but to replace the cover. I bought a used one from the yard for $10, but spent a whole weekend replacing it! At least when I did the water pump/timing belt on my 94 3.0 I didn't break a single one....phew
 
#17 ·
Why not revive a long dead thread :)

Did this on my 2006 T&C, broke the most inaccessible bolt possible and had no option but to pull the cover. I brought it to a local machine shop and for only $45 they drilled out and heli-coiled 2 damaged threads and chased the remaining. Now to reassemble.....
 
#18 ·
A Tip for getting these bolts out instead of breaking them.

1) If you suspect "potential" bolt breakage, try tapping the head of the bolt while turning it -- small ball peen hammer works well. Most of the time this trick will allow the bolt to be removed without breaking.
2) In regard to "Easy Outs". Make sure you use a "left hand drill bit" to drill the hole for the Easy Out, this aids in loosening the bolt prior to Easy Out usage. Also make sure you use the largest Easy Out possible for the bolt shank. This means getting the hole drilled in the center of the shank.
 
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