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Disappearing Coolant --> SEVERE Coolant Leak

75K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  Road Ripper 
#1 ·
So Shipo and I had a conversation a few months ago in a previous thread about possible reasons for a continuously empty coolant overflow reservoir bottle... something that makes us a wee bit uneasy seeing as overheating 3.3L/3.8L are really nasty things to deal with.

Anyway, last week I was changing my oil (Realized it had almost been 6,000 miles since my last change of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30 Synthetic). When I went to close the hood I looked at my coolant bottle which I had JUST filled two weeks ago. (I went to the dealer, made the mechanic tell me the SPECIFIC type of fluid needed, bought a gallon of it and filled the bottle.)

Well when I looked, the bottle was empty! Well, not empty, but the fluid level was way below the MIN line. So, remembering what Shipo said about how the van is probably consuming coolant through cracks in the block (and how there really is no fix), I just went to get my gallon bottle of coolant, and I filled it up again.

As soon as I was done pouring, I began to walk away and that's when I heard the sound of liquid leaking out onto the pavement at a very steady rate. I looked underneath the van and right in front of my face, saw this:



There goes my brand new coolant right spot onto the ground. It was a bittersweet moment because I was really happy to know where my coolant was going, and that it wasn't indeed being consumed in the engine, but it was bad at the same time because now I have a MAJOR leak to find and deal with.

Seeing as it was a cloudy day, 29 degrees and the lighting was bad, I tried my best to get some pictures of where the leak appeared to be coming from. But I'm still at a loss as to where it may be pouring out. Help!!!

This is what came out of aiming the digital camera up at the bottom of the van directly above the puddle of new, expensive, wasted coolant:





Is the bottle cracked? Or is the pipe FROM the bottle cracked? Or is the attachment point between the bottle and the pipe loose? I have no idea how to even go about figuring this out without paying to get access to a full vehicle lift which I don't have access to.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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#2 ·
kinda hard to tell from the pictures but my first thing would be to check all the coolant hoses, as those could be cracking. It could be the bottle is cracked too, but I've never heard of those cracking, though in car repair there can be some very odd stuff that can happen.
 
#3 ·
A couple of thoughts:

- It could very well be coming from the place where the hose connects - especially if someone overtightened a clamp there and broke the bottle... you'll just need to get in there with a flashlight and find out.... The coolant bottle and overflow hose are not pressurized, so if there is a leak, you should be able to find it without much trouble. All you have to do is remove one hex screw to pull the coolant bottle out and inspect it.

- Oftentimes the coolant level will rise somewhat just after turning the engine off, esp. if the engine was heated up quite a lot. In the minutes after engine-off, the coolant continues to heat up and expand as more heat is absorbed from the engine block and heads. If you top the coolant off immediately after the engine is turned off, there is a slight chance you could end up with an overflow.

- G
 
#5 ·
The expansion tank is held in place with just one self-tapping screw, the bottom
has a protrusion that fits into a hole in the sheetmetal. Plug the overflow hose
with something after you disconnect it.
If that's really the place the coolant is leaking from, the had to be some coolant
seen on the ground before.

I found two weeks ago a pinhole leak in that pipe assembly for the rear heater.
One pipe is badly rusted at one spot, with a bulge all the way around. Wrapped
it temporarily with plumbing repair tape, now waiting for better weather to
perform the replacement.
 
#6 ·
I don't know the underhood location of things 3rd gen, but I think your radiator just peed the bed...

----

BTW - I presume you're cutting that expensive coolant with 50% distilled water, before refilling - or else your putting too much in (coolant & $).

-Jim
 
#7 ·
A couple of points:

So Shipo and I had a conversation a few months ago in a previous thread about possible reasons for a continuously empty coolant overflow reservoir bottle... something that makes us a wee bit uneasy seeing as overheating 3.3L/3.8L are really nasty things to deal with.

Anyway, last week I was changing my oil (Realized it had almost been 6,000 miles since my last change of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-30 Synthetic). When I went to close the hood I looked at my coolant bottle which I had JUST filled two weeks ago. (I went to the dealer, made the mechanic tell me the SPECIFIC type of fluid needed, bought a gallon of it and filled the bottle.)

Well when I looked, the bottle was empty! Well, not empty, but the fluid level was way below the MIN line. So, remembering what Shipo said about how the van is probably consuming coolant through cracks in the block (and how there really is no fix), I just went to get my gallon bottle of coolant, and I filled it up again.
I'm sorry if I misrepresented what I was trying to say back during our previous discussion on this issue, but at least in the case of my van and a few others around here, I don't believe that the gradual coolant loss is via any "cracks in the block". That said, given that my swap of the head gaskets last summer did nothing to slow the amount of coolant my engine is drinking, our fellow member friscovoyager suggested that the leak may well be past the coolant passage "O" rings in the timing cover.

Is the bottle cracked? Or is the pipe FROM the bottle cracked? Or is the attachment point between the bottle and the pipe loose? I have no idea how to even go about figuring this out without paying to get access to a full vehicle lift which I don't have access to.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
I'm thinking that your bottle has a problem as the drips seem to be directly underneath the bottle. As somebody already said, pulling the bottle for a quick inspection is really easy. Give it a look-see and let us know what you find. ;)
 
#9 ·
This is what I'm thinking only because the bottle doesn't appear to empty completely. Once the level drains below the MIN point, it seems to stop. Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can figure out how to pull out the container to inspect it.

As far as I understand so far, the process should go like this correct?

1. Remove single screw attaching bottle to body.
2. Take coolant hose off bottom of the bottle and plug it with a cloth or something
3. Inspect the bottle for leaks
4. Reinstall
 
#10 ·
Kind of...

1. Remove bottle
2. Detach hose by squeezing clamp-ends with pliers while trying to slide clamp up the hose clear of the nipple on the bottle.
3. Stretch hose while pulling on it trying to get it to come off.
4. When the hose finally comes off, spashing coolant everywhere, regain compsure and seal the nipple with a finger...any finger.
5. Drain remaining coolant into a container then rinse the coolant off the paint, engine, windshield, hair, skin and clothes and also the scum out of bottle. Then fill with water and leak check.
6. Examine the hose as well by bending and twisting to look for cracks and holes.
7. Hopefully it won't be a big waste of time but it seems like a good place to start...
 
#11 ·
...rinse the coolant off the paint, engine, windshield, hair, skin and clothes and also the scum out of bottle. Then fill with water and leak check.
THAT is exactly the type of thing that would happen to me.

On another note. I'm not really sure I should be putting a 50/50 coolant/distilled water mixture into the coolant bottle only because I'm not sure what's currently in the system. I haven't gotten the coolant system flushed/drained & replaced since I got the van. Thus, I have no idea if there is even ANY water in the system.

I could be completely wrong in thinking this, but I'm just really nervous about having another destroyed thermostat and radiator experience.

Come to think of it, the dealer might have ended up draining and refilling the coolant during that radiator/thermostat/radiator cap repair, but I don't recall "COOLANT FLUSH" showing up on the repair ticket.
 
#12 ·
When the cooling system needs to be 'topped off' use a 50/50 mix (you are replacing what you lost with what was in there...). Exceptions would be when no coolant is available and you are stuck or when you are trying to rebalance the mixture because you were stuck and added only water earlier.

You can buy a coolant tester for a few bucks that will indicate the ratio of water and coolant.

Coolant 'dies' after a few years...

If only water has been added to the bottle the most likely the mixture will be too thin If the mix is heavy in water or coolant you can make small changes by adding the opposite to the bottle. Let it mix during a few driving cycles and remeasure.

Use ethylene glycol based coolant not propylene glycol and I prefer not to use the "it-mixes-with-anything" type.
 
#13 ·
Use ethylene glycol based coolant not propylene glycol and I prefer not to use the "it-mixes-with-anything" type.
Any particular reason for warning folks off of using propylene glycol? This type of coolant is virtually non-toxic to engine bearings should some find it's way into the oil, and it is far less toxic to the environment should it get spilled.

In my case I switched our Gen3 van over to Propylene Glycol nearly forty thousand miles ago and have not regretted the change one bit.
 
#15 ·
Yeah, I know about the freeze issue, of course that is easily remedied by simply keeping the mixture up to about 65% coolant. As for the protection issue, I've never heard about that one, and at this point I doubt I'd be able point a finger at the new coolant given that the car has over 150,000 miles on the factory cooling system.

Hmmm, could it be that the Propylene Glycol is what is responsible for my rear heat lines still being leak free? :p
 
#17 ·
The freeze-up protection may mean that with Propylene Glycol coolant, there could be more need for a winter mix and a summer mix. My understanding is that water is a more effective carrier of heat from the engine to radiator, and so you generally want as much water as you can get and still have effective freeze-up, corrosion, and boil-over protection.

I am guessing that there could be validity to the corrosion issue with Propylene Glycol. All of the PG statements on corrosion I have seen say "excellent protection against corrosion" or something like that, not "equal to Ethylene Glycol" or "better than Ethylene Glycol". Hmmm... what isn't said... :)

- G
 
#18 ·
Well, now I'm confused.

I went out to the van about an hour ago to finally pull the coolant reservoir overflow bottle out of the van to check it for leaks as suggested. But when I opened the hood, the coolant reservoir bottle was nearly full!

When I filled it last time (the problem that started this thread)... it immediately dumped coolant onto the ground and the level was certainly not where it should be. But... now it is? Who else is confused? Cracks/holes in plastic bottles do not just magically repair themselves as much as we would hope.

I drove the van around campus a few times to get it warm and get the coolant circulating. When I re-parked it and checked the level, it actually had RISEN a bit more in the coolant bottle. Where as it was right below the "MAX" mark on the bottle, the level now that the engine was warm was now just a bit above and past the "MAX" point.

For anyone who is curious, I called the dealer to see how much they want for a new plastic coolant reservoir overflow bottle: (P/N: 4682294)

$58.94 <-- :Wow1:

For a plastic bottle. $58.94. I mean, I expect dealer prices to be high, but I was figuring it couldn't be higher than $20-30. But $58.94... NO thanks, I'll use duct tape. You're probably wondering what the price is off Chrysler Parts Direct, but when I searched that part number nothing came up, other wise I would've provided that price for comparison purposes.

I think the best thing to do now is just to watch the level... and the ground :blink:... and hope for the best.
 
#19 ·
Just for kicks, I called my Chrysler dealer back in Connecticut where I take the 1996.

Coolant Reservoir Overflow Bottle (P/N: 4682294)
That same part is $33.96 <-- Now THAT'S what I expected.

...something actually is CHEAPER in Connecticut? Wowzers!
 
#22 ·
Many years ago on my '96 I had the same mysterious coolant problem. I eventually discovered that the water pump was periodically oozing/leaking and the coolant just burned off on the engine. But at times when it was cold, I would find coolant on the ground. I figure when the engine was hot the clearances where the leak was tightened up then when cold they opened up. Hence the leak. Changing the pump fixed the problem. Have a look at the bleed hole below the shaft on the pump. If you see staining running down on the housing you have a bad pump. Just a thought.
 
#23 ·
I'm guilty of just adding water when things overheat.. I have the same problem that apparently several others have had..The water/antifreeze just disappears without a trace. Oil is clean, transmission clean, nothing on the ground, new thermostat, new water pump, new hoses, etc.
As long as the antifreeze is going to disappear every few weeks I'm kind of loathed to keep dumping more money into antifreeze until I can find out exactly where it's going. The stuff ain't exactly cheap..
Then again it's not exactly a new vehicle so if it blows up to become a giant paper weight it has earned its keep over the years..It wouldn't be the first vehicle that I've put out of its misery and sent off to the soup can recycling plant..
 
#24 ·
I'm guilty of just adding water when things overheat.. I have the same problem that apparently several others have had..The water/antifreeze just disappears without a trace. Oil is clean, transmission clean, nothing on the ground, new thermostat, new water pump, new hoses, etc.
As long as the antifreeze is going to disappear every few weeks I'm kind of loathed to keep dumping more money into antifreeze until I can find out exactly where it's going. The stuff ain't exactly cheap..
Then again it's not exactly a new vehicle so if it blows up to become a giant paper weight it has earned its keep over the years..It wouldn't be the first vehicle that I've put out of its misery and sent off to the soup can recycling plant..
Welcome.

Using "Allpurpose" water is better than nothing.

Your problem might be a leaking radiator.

When radiator have an small leak on the top lines, is not easy to detect it, untill it becomes a big leak.
 
#25 ·
I'm going to apologize right off the bat and say that I don't have time to read all the messages other people have already posted to you.
So if I'm repeating something that they've already said, I know this will be a waste of your time but I do apologize. None the less in the interest of potentially helping you I want to mention a few things.

After reading your entire original post, I noticed that you mentioned you're only adding coolant to the reservoir bottle. On these older Vans, it's better to wait until the engine is completely cool, open the radiator cap and add it straight to the radiator until the radiator is completely full. Then put the cap back on and then fill the reservoir bottle to the minimum line

If you're only adding fluid to the reservoir, you're probably not adding enough for the system to be full enough to really show where a major leak would be. Once full of coolant, which should be mixed 50/50, you'll have enough pressure in the system to really expose an obvious leak

The place that you described it coming from, sounds like it's probably the lower radiator hose or the water pump. Unfortunately, I cannot find a way to see the photos that you posted in your original post. They just have messages that say sorry this image is unavailable.

Finally, if you have salvage yards around you and are minimally skilled with tools, I would go there and get a coolant reservoir bottle. They
are absurdly expensive to buy brand new, and as long as they're intact structurally, there's no reason not to get a used one. I get 95% of my parts at the junkyard now and I pay about 8% of what a brand new part would cost (yes that's 92% off) . You probably would pay 7 bucks or less for that bottle at the junkyard.

GOOD LUCK
Let us know what happens
 
#26 ·
The place that you described it coming from, sounds like it's probably the lower radiator hose or the water pump. Unfortunately, I cannot find a way to see the photos that you posted in your original post. They just have messages that say sorry this image is unavailable.

Finally, if you have salvage yards around you and are minimally skilled with tools, I would go there and get a coolant reservoir bottle. They
are absurdly expensive to buy brand new, and as long as they're intact structurally, there's no reason not to get a used one. I get 95% of my parts at the junkyard now and I pay about 8% of what a brand new part would cost (yes that's 92% off) . You probably would pay 7 bucks or less for that bottle at the junkyard.

GOOD LUCK
Let us know what happens
And the reason you cannot see those pictures is because you are replying to a 13+ y.o. post, a lot have changed since those pictures were posted.
 
#28 ·
Threads don't get closed usually. They just fade into oblivion until someone's search digs them up, they reply not knowing it's a _ year old thread, and it gets bumped to the top.
 
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