Using other than 5w20 in 05 3.8?



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Thread: Using other than 5w20 in 05 3.8?

  1. #1
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    Using other than 5w20 in 05 3.8?

    Hey ALL

    2005 3.8 Town and Country - Mobil 1 Syn

    I understand that the 5w20 is used to get better gas mileage. If I'm ok with this concept and want to use 5w30 or 10w30 do we think this will void the warranty?

    I do all the oil changes myself and keep all the reciepts. Just want to be sure that a pile of 5w30 reciepts will not cause havoc later with possible warranty issues.

    Thanks in advance for all your responses

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    No problem; but test results discussed on "bob the oil guy" web site have demonstrated that Mobil 1 5W-20 provides at least as much protection if not more than their 5W-30 product. There is much overlap in the specifications for viscosity. Any good name brand 5W-20 should provide you with more than adequate service. If you are driving in over 100 degree F pulling a heavy load up hill than a 10W-30 might be a more appropriate viscosity for that use. Common sense and a little knowledge can go a long way.

    Richard
    2004 Town & Country Limited, Michlin HydroEdge, added OEM Rear Sway Bar, German OEM Headlights with Hella H7+30 and H9 bulbs, Centric Rotors, Akabono Ceramic Pads, front and rear, rear hitch.

    2001 PT Cruiser Limited automatic, Goodyear TripleTread rear, Goodyear Eagle ResponseEdge front, performance sway bar bushings and front links, 9011 and 9012 bulbs, front tower bar, Centric Rotors, Akabono Ceramic Pads, front only, Champion dual plat plugs, Mopar performance plug wires.

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    It wouldn't void the warranty unless they can prove that the failure was caused by the thick oil.

    My question is why would you even consider 5W-30 or 10W-30? 5W-20 is tested, validated, and specified by Chrysler. Ford also uses it and Honda also uses it. Used Oil Analyses have shown EXCELLENT wear numbers with this oil, better even than 5W-30 sometimes. 5W-20 stays in grade better and longer than 5W-30 does. There's no reason to NOT use 5W-20 in your 2005+ engine.

    I happen to be running Mobil 1 5W-20 in my 2007.
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    I was leary about using 5w-20 in my 05 also, since it is the same engine as before with no obvious changes that spec'd 5/10w-30.
    After some research though, 5w-20 is what I use now.

    As for voiding the warranty, technically, as Jason said, they would have to prove it caused the failure, but why give them ammo by handing them a handful of receipts saying 5w-30 when they will say "well, the manual and oil cap say 5w-20".
    Just a note: If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more than you.

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    5w20 will only cause you problems if you push your engine to the point that the increased shear properties of a higher weight oil are needed. Chances are you never will.
    2010 Honda Oddy LX - 9k miles - Land Barge
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    HAPHAP05:

    With the advent of advancing engine technology along with the quest for better fuel economy, the lighter weight oils have come about.

    Todays engines are built with more precise tolerances/clearances which were not possibly years ago. Thus, thinner oil flows better through the smaller passages.

    I was introdced to 20w back in 2001 when Ford began to spec it for some of their vehicles to include the Crown Victoria. Since then, Honda and Chrysler have followed suit.

    IMO, when your vehicle is under warranty you want to follow the factory specs when it comes to maintenance. Regardless of what others may say, if your documentation does not match their requirements, the burden of proof will be on you, not them. Most of us are not attorneys, nor do we have the resources to go out and find alternate transportation while our primary vehicle is down for what may end up being an extended period of time.

    I was in a dealers service bay some years back, and chatted with a wrench there while waiting for some parts. He was working on a fairly new Grand Marquis that had engine bearing issues. When I inquired how a new vehicle could have bearing issues, he replied that the wrong grade of oil had been put in the motor, and that the repair was not covered under warranty.

    Don
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    Quote Originally Posted by blupupher View Post
    I was leary about using 5w-20 in my 05 also, since it is the same engine as before with no obvious changes that spec'd 5/10w-30.
    The changes could be as small as slightly tighter bearing tolerances (just a different bearing part number). That's where the oil's weight really comes into play -- at the rubbing surface.
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    Quote Originally Posted by averkam View Post
    5w20 will only cause you problems if you push your engine to the point that the increased shear properties of a higher weight oil are needed. Chances are you never will.
    When the going gets tough, I think you'll be better off with the 5W-20 vs. the 5W-30. Why?

    Conventional oils are formulated using the lower of the viscosity numbers on the oil bottle. A conventional 5W-30, for example, is formulated with 5W oil, and Viscosity Index Improvers (or VIIs) are added to bring the oil up to 30W viscosity under normal operation temperature (which is in the 10 cSt range at 100*F, give or take). During normal use, oil will shear, which breaks it down. A conventional oil will actually lose some of its viscosity, and will try to retrograde back to its native viscosity (in this case, 5W). The oil will "thin" out, and won't really be a 30W oil at normal operating temperatures. It's often said (when folks argue against 5W-20, and I'm not saying that you are) that a normal 5W-30 or 10W-30 shears down to close to a 20W oil after a few thousand miles anyway. Because the 5W-20 oils don't have as many VIIs (because they're only going from 5W to 20W, instead of 5W to 30W), they don't shear down as much, and stay in grade better.

    Synthetic oils, as I understand, are formulated using the higher weight oil (20W or 30W) and use Pour Point Improvers (PIIs) to improve the cold pouring point. In this way, there's no where for a synthetic oil to "shear to", since its native viscosity is already what you want to be running anyway.

    I think the real benefits of these new 5W-20 oils are demonstrated in Ford having retrospecified that oil for many of its older engines. The argument that the oil is only used for CAFE reasons goes out the window. Ford has nothing to gain by you running 5W-20 in a 1999 Crown Vic vs. 5W-30. And they have specifically EXCLUDED this grade of oil for SOME of its previous engines, indicating that it really is not compatible with some engines, for some reason. The only reason I wouldn't use 5W-20 in a pre-2005 3.3L/3.8L Chrysler engine is because Chrysler hasn't specifically retrospecified it yet. If they do, I'd have full confidence that the engine is 100% compatible with the oil. If they don't, then at least some part of me will feel that there truly is a key component or components in the 2005+ engines that allow for and are optimized for the 5W-20 oil vs. 5W-30. The owner's manuals used to allow 10W-30 vs. 5W-30 if you were in warmer weather, etc. Not anymore. The ONLY grade allowed is 5W-20, and I'm confident that there are valid engineering reasons for it.
    Last edited by Hokiefyd; 12-05-2007 at 12:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    The changes could be as small as slightly tighter bearing tolerances (just a different bearing part number). That's where the oil's weight really comes into play -- at the rubbing surface.
    Yea, that's why I said no obvious changes. One of the reasons I am using 5w-20 also (that and I figure the engineers are a little smarter than I am, or at least hope they are).
    Just a note: If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more than you.

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    [QUOTE=Jason;52950]When the going gets tough, I think you'll be better off with the 5W-20 vs. the 5W-30. Why?

    Conventional oils are formulated using the lower of the viscosity numbers on the oil bottle.......

    ....... Synthetic oils, as I understand, are formulated using the higher weight oil (20W or 30W) and use Pour Point Improvers (PIIs) to improve the cold pouring point. In this way, there's no where for a synthetic oil to "shear to", since its native viscosity is already what you want to be running anyway.....
    [QUOTE]

    Conventional vs. Synthetic is a completely different arguement. I would also run 5w20 synthetic vs 5w30 convetional.

    Like I said before, I really do not think that this is an issues in our minivan motors. The tow rating is not high enough to require that much engine abuse.

    Running a thicker oil will not harm your engine (cold starts could be debated). I am not suggesting you try and run 20W50 in your van but 10w30 would not hurt it. You will get better mileage with thinner oil.

    As for warranty claims. They can not deny you warranty work unless they can show you the spec that the oil you had in your car does not conform to. You may need to lean on them but they don't have leagal grounds based solely on oil weight. For example the Corvette goes so far as to put right on the oil cap the oil requirements down to the brand. However, they would have to prove that the oil that you had in there did not meet the spec that they have on the oil cap before they can deny you service.
    2010 Honda Oddy LX - 9k miles - Land Barge
    2008 Honda Fit Sport - 31k miles - What a riot!
    1996 Toyota Land Cruiser - 292k miles - Tank
    Gone - 2001 DGC Sport 3.3L 169K

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