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Alternator: Removal & Installation - Tips? Suggestions?

95K views 92 replies 20 participants last post by  Ch0pper 
#1 ·
Well, a few of you may have seen a post of mine in another thread talking about the high-pitch singing and the whining that is present in my 2000 Town & Country Limited 3.8L which corresponds to engine speed. Yesterday, I almost couldn't the van started out of the blue. It took a solid 4-5 seconds of slow molassass like cranking to get the engine going. I drove it straight to this Checker Auto place that does free charging system diagnostics, which is when I found out that my battery was so dead I shouldn't have been able to get a peep out of it. This confirmed my suspicion about the alternator. Previously I thought it could be the water pump, but now that I was told that a problem was detected and that there is an "Excess Ripple" error, I think its time for a new alternator. Now many of you may laugh, but I have never replaced an alternator before, and I have never had to remove/install the belts in any of my Town & Countrys before. I'm going to post the instructions I found for removing and replacing the alternator for the 3.3L/3.8L V6 DCX '96-'00 minivan engines. If someone could read them over and tell me if they are in fact the most appropriate instructions it would be greatly appreciated. Tips, tricks, suggestions would be helpful too.

REMOVAL
  1. Disconnect the cable from the negative terminal of the battery.
  2. Remove the windshield wiper housing.
  3. Remove the bolt holding the top of the alternator mount bracket to the engine air intake plenum.
  4. Remove the bolts holding the outside of the alternator mount bracket to the alternator mount plate.
  5. Remove the bolt holding the top of the alternator to the mount bracket.
  6. Remove the alternator mount bracket from the vehicle.
  7. Rotate the alternator toward the rear of the vehicle.
  8. Disconnect the push-in field wire connector from the back of the alternator.
  9. Remove the nut holding the B+ wire terminal to the alternator.
  10. Remove the wire/terminal from the alternator.
  11. Remove the bolt hoding the bottom of the alternator to the lower pivot bracket.
  12. Remove the alternator.

INSTALLATION
  1. Installation is the reverse of removal.
  2. After the alternator is installed, adjust the drivebelt tension.
  3. Check the charging voltage to verify proper operation of the alternator.
___________________________________________________________________
Haynes Repair Manual: Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager & Chrysler Town & Country 1996 thru 1999 Mini-vans


So, what is going to be my biggest challenge?:ask_wsign Is getting the drivebelt on and off going to make me wish I were never born? Because if so, then I might have to take it somewhere, which I would really rather not do. I'm trusting that even though the manual doesn't technically include the 2000 model year, the steps are still exactly the same.
 
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#2 ·
I can't speak for the alternator removal steps, as I haven't yet performed them myself, but removing the drive belt is a piece of cake. Just rotate the tensioner pulley bolt clockwise to loosen the drive belt, and pop it off. I just used two combination wrenches; one with the proper size to fit the tensioner pulley bolt (15mm IIRC), and then another one hooked on to the first as a cheater bar. Even putting the belt back on isn't all that difficult.

Chad
 
#3 · (Edited)
So...getting the single v-ribbed serpentine belt off...

Ok, so putting it back on...does this require that the bolt is torqued to a specific amount because if so, I need to get a torque wrench...

Also, from the diagram, it seems as though the belt is really convoluted in how it's wound around all the pulleys and stuff. If it for some reason falls out of the engine while I have it off, what are the chances of me being able to get it back on properly to all of those pulleys? Kind of an intimidating diagram to be completely honest....

Also, what size alternator goes into the 3.8? The guy at Checker Auto says that there are two different ones, like 90W and 120W or something like that and he told me I need to check. Does anyone know?
 
#5 ·
Ok, so putting it back on...does this require that the bolt is torqued to a specific amount because if so, I need to get a torque wrench?
A Torque wrench is ALWAYS a good idea. The cheapish ones from Checker are OK ... I bought one from Checker in COS about 10 years ago and it's served me well.

I got the alternator off without removing the cowlings btw, but it did take some juggling.

Also, from the diagram, it seems as though the belt is really convoluted in how it's wound around all the pulleys and stuff. If it for some reason falls out of the engine while I have it off, what are the chances of me being able to get it back on properly to all of those pulleys? Kind of an intimidating diagram to be completely honest....
There should be a label somewhere under the hood showing the belt path. It's not that hard. The easiest thing to do is to get it around every part of the path except on the idler (towards the front top, no grooves) then work the belt on there as you pull the tensioner. Just watch your fingers and never put them under the belt!

Also, what size alternator goes into the 3.8? The guy at Checker Auto says that there are two different ones, like 90W and 120W or something like that and he told me I need to check. Does anyone know?
There are a number of different alternators that can go on this engine. They are all, from what I understand, interchangeable. The 120 Amp is installed if the van has the towing package, but it would not hurt to install it, although it will be a bit more expensive.

Your best bet is to pull the original and take it to NAPA and see if you can get a DENSO rebuilt one. Some of the rebuilders are better than others.
 
#4 ·
The tensioner assembly simply consists of a spring loaded lever arm. By rotating the tensioner pulley bolt, you're not loosening/tightening the bolt, you're actually rotating the pulley downward which loosens up the belt. It'll be pretty obvious once you get in there. You're over-analyzing this thing to death. Just go do it. :thumb:
 
#6 ·
Boy I'm really not ontop of my game today. I said Watts instead of Amps. Forgive my idiocy. Thanks for the info- I guess you mean just to get it around all the components on the path but start seating it tight from the idler, down.
 
#7 ·
Yup ... put it around all the components *except* the idler wheel (as opposed to the tensioner wheel) ... they look the similar, except the tensioner is further to the rear of the engine compartment and lower.

Hold the belt against the idler and gently pull it up. Pull on the tensioner with a LONG 15mm wrench and you'll find that you'll be able to slip the belt over the idler taking care where you put your fingers!
 
#9 ·
I had this thought too. If the battery is as dead as you say it is, it could be putting a HUGE load on the alternator trying to charge it. Since you will need to replace the battery anyway, do that first and then look at the alternator if the "singing" doesn't go away.
 
#10 ·
Just wanted to add my .02 to this discussion that alternators are one of those jobs that you only want to do one time and one time only. Meaning, stay away from those inexpensive (dare I say "cheap") rebuilds that probably came from abroad. Even if it has a "lifetime warranty," do you want to have to replace it again, or worse yet, have it get you (or your wife) stuck somewhere? I've always had the best experiences removing and taking starters and alternators to the local starter/alternator/automotive electric shop. They tend to use better quality rebuild parts, and don't want any of their rebuilds coming back. Sure, it may cost you a few bucks more, but who wants to have to remove that wiper cowling again?
 
#17 ·
I had a genuine Ford reman Alternator put in my 91 Escort years ago. Because it was reman, it cost less and it had a lifetime warranty. less than a year later, when the voltage regulator died, and they said it needs a new alternator, I told them I would be happy to accept a new alternator, since it would be free of charge, but I thought it probably just needed a voltage regulator.

That got them to doing more detailed diagnostic work, and as it turned out, all it needed was the voltage regulator, which on that vehicle, was a separate part.

Remanufactured is not always bad. Sometimes it's even better than new.
 
#11 ·
...stay away from those inexpensive (dare I say "cheap") rebuilds that probably came from abroad
If you have a source for alternators (or any other parts for these vans for that matter) that DON'T come from China or Taiwan, I'm all ears. Every boxed part I've gotten from Napa lately has "Made In China" proudly stamped all over it. Makes me sick, but what're you gonna do when the reputed "high quality" parts stores can't sell you anything made in this fine country?
 
#12 ·
When I bought a "Factory Reman" starter from Denso last summer the starter came with a label that said, "Remanufactured in the U.S.A.". You can see a photo of the label in the seventh message posted at the following link:

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=4294&page=2

The Denso site that I bought the starter from does list alternators for our vans as well (although they ain't cheap being listed at $177.51) and can be reached via this link: http://www.densoproducts.com

Let us know how you make out. :)
 
#13 ·
There are sources of rebuilt parts that come from the United States. Denso is a good source. ACDelco is another great source, if an ACDelco rebuild is available for these vans. I used to work at Advance Auto when I was in school -- we'd see the Chinese rebuilds come back all the time. The ACDelcos hardly ever came back. Those were the only two brands we sold at the time...the ADV house brand and ACDelco.

Check around online, like at www.rockauto.com, www.PartsAmerica.com (which is Advance), www.autozone.com, etc.
 
#14 ·
Well, I think we've pretty much ruled out the battery discussion. I dropped the battery into a charger to give it a good charge capacity. When I put it back into the van, the sing was still there as loud and prominent as before. While I was poking around the engine trying to size up what this job is going to entail I noticed that there seems to be a metal guard running along the bottom of the engine directly below the drivebelt. It seems to pretty much protect the belt from anything the front-right wheel could kick up. I had thought someone had said a while back that 3rd generation driver's should avoid the slightest of puddles with their front-right tire because it will kick anything and everything up into the belt causing the problem being discussed in the other forum of belt slippage. Just curious....
 
#23 ·
No, I still don't think you have. Even if it is the alternator, you will still have to replace the battery; so just do that first and see if the alternator stops singing. You may be replacing more parts than you have to. If the battery is discharging so fast that the alternator has to continually charge it in addition to the load generated by running the car and any other accessories you have going at the time, the alternator can sing.
 
#15 · (Edited)
That guard you are referring to is what is commonly known as the splash shield, and unless they changed it from '97 year, it should be plastic. There should be 2 bolts/screws holding it i under the front bumper (recessed, you'll need an extension on the socket) and 2 or 3 plastic "buttons" attaching it to the wheel well.

There is a wide-spread concern about going through deep puddles and snow with the 3rd gen vans because of the POSSIBILITY of water getting AROUND the splash shield and hitting the belt/pulleys. Not all 3rd gen vans seem to have that problem, but some do and apparently nothing short of that Gates kit solves it for those unlucky owners. You were part of that thread last week that talked about the Gates kit that addressed the symptoms of that problem.

When I bought a "Factory Reman" starter from Denso last summer the starter came with a label that said, "Remanufactured in the U.S.A.". You can see a photo of the label in the seventh message posted at the following link:
...And what they didn't mention was "Remanufactured in the U.S.A., with parts from China". (No, I don't have proof this is the case, I'm just highly skeptical that US made parts went into the starter).

How about a source for US made brake pads and rotors - those were the specific items I purchased from NAPA bearing the "Made in China" stamp. And I'm not talking about any kind of funky "racing" type cross drilled or slotted, ultra high performance ones.

Boy, we could talk all day long about the mess of American Manufacturing we've gotten ourselves into over the last couple of decades....
 
#16 ·
How about a source for US made brake pads and rotors - those were the specific items I purchased from NAPA bearing the "Made in China" stamp. And I'm not talking about any kind of funky "racing" type cross drilled or slotted, ultra high performance ones.
You just have to look around a little, and maybe quit going to Napa if they can't get you American parts. ;)

The Raybestos Ceramic QuietStop brake pads I bought last weekend from Pep Boys clearly say "Made in USA" on the packaging. Usually the cheaper house brands are made in China or Asia. The more expensive rotors and pads are usually North American-sourced, often times from the United States. I will admit that I bought the cheaper (still expensive in my opinion at $45 each) rotors that were made in China. The US-made Raybestos Professional Grade Plus rotors were about $65 as I recall. So I could have had an all-American brake job, not using "exotic or ultra high performance" parts. Just quality parts from a quality brand.
 
#19 ·
The US-made Raybestos Professional Grade Plus rotors were about $65 as I recall
Wow. didn't know these were US-made, checked the website for Schucks/Checkers and doesn't mentione anything about being made in the U.S. Nice to know. I can already see the glazed-over look I'd get from the parts counter person if I asked for a pair of rotors that were made in America.

FYI, I go to my local NAPA because the parts counter guy is actually helpful and somewhat knowledgeable (unless I go in on Saturday, then the standard monkeys are working), and because I got tired of crappy parts that I would buy at Autozone or Checkers breaking. Not to say that all NAPA parts are super high quality, I'm sure some of it is just re-boxed under their brand name.

You are right that I should stop going to NAPA if they can't get me American made parts (provided they're available elsewhere). I do not look forward to my next several parts shopping experiences now - thanks :cry:
 
#20 · (Edited)
Well now that you mention service...

I had to essentially tell the Pep Boys guy which parts I needed. The 4th gen vans had two different front brake designs...maybe the 3rd gen vans are similar. There's a TRW design and a Continental Teves design. I knew what I needed when I walked in there, but based on how they were listed in their computer, if I didn't know, I had a 50% chance of having to go back. I guess that's all part of trying to be an informed consumer, but perhaps NAPA's computer would have made it more apparent which is which. To tell you the truth, the reason I've started going to Pep Boys is because they're about the largest store around and I've had the best chance of them stocking what I want, instead of having to order. I usually know exactly what I'm looking for when I go in (brand and everything), so they don't really even have to "sell" it to me.

I won't swear that the Raybestos PG Plus rotors are American...I haven't seen them...but I said they were because that's generally the pattern that auto retail chains follow, in my experience. When I worked at Advance Auto, we sold two major brake lines (as Pep Boys apparently does). The WearEver brakes were the house brand, and were actually made by Ferodo. The WearEver rotors WERE Chinese rotors (I remember that), but I don't remember the origin of the pads. We (Advance) also sold name brand brakes, and actually we had a few different brands we stocked. My Cadillac has Bendix pads on the front, and I know I bought those there. I also remember buying ACDelco brake parts through Advance. The name brand rotors (Bendix, at the time) were made in either Canada or USA. I remember that because that was usually our selling pitch. The WearEver rotors were the Chinese rotors and the Bendix rotors were the American ones. Using that pattern, the major brand rotors (Bendix, Raybestos, Wagner, etc) are typically North American, while the cheaper house brands are usually foreign.
 
#21 ·
I try to avoid the temptation to shop for the lowest price (unless it's same brand, same p/n, etc), as it's only fun installing parts once, and sometimes not even that :biggrin:

The reason you were well aware of exactly what you needed when you walked in to the parts store is because you looked it up online in advance, no? I tried looking up those rotors you mentioned online not only at napa, but all the other local auto parts' websites (Autozone and Advance Auto aka Checkers aka Schucks IIRC) I could find - none of these sites mention country of origin. It's only when you see the box in person or call the store and have a parts person look for you that you get the pleasure of finding out.

If there was enough interest, I suppose we could create a sticky post containing a listing of parts that are made in the USA for these vans and where to get them. Might get kind of messy though - these messages aren't great as a database.
 
#24 ·
The reason you were well aware of exactly what you needed when you walked in to the parts store is because you looked it up online in advance, no? I tried looking up those rotors you mentioned online not only at napa, but all the other local auto parts' websites (Autozone and Advance Auto aka Checkers aka Schucks IIRC) I could find - none of these sites mention country of origin. It's only when you see the box in person or call the store and have a parts person look for you that you get the pleasure of finding out.
I don't want to hijack this thread too bad, so this'll be my final post on this subject I guess, although I'd love to continue in a new thread if there is other interest.

Yes, I did look them up, but I wasn't necessarily prioritizing country of origin this time. I knew I wanted the Raybestos QuietStop ceramic pads and I knew that Pep Boys was (I think) the only local shop who stocks those. I know that you do get what you pay for...unfortunately I needed the brakes THEN, and they would actually have had to order the major brand rotors. :( I have pretty expensive rotors on the Caddy ($125 ea), but they've outlasted any rotor I've ever had in my life. They're drilled rotors by PowerStop. That car always ate front brakes, and if the 4th gen vans ate brakes like that Cadillac did, I'd have had a pair of the PowerStops on hand for when I did need brakes. We had to do brakes on that Caddy every 20k miles or so, until the drilled rotors; it's now been 75k miles since I've touched the front brakes.
 
#25 ·
Out of insane curiosity, I was wondering why an alternator might "sing" when under high electrical load, so I googled it and came up with this result, which appears to be related to a small airplane, but (I think) the logic transfers over to cars as well.

Alternator Whine
 
#37 ·
Actually you have the wrong whine here. The whine here they talk about is 'radio whine' and can sometimes be heard in a car - but this is a whine that you hear in the radio, not actually from the alternator itself. The whine pitch changes are angine (alternator) RPM changes. Often a bad filter (if installed) or a bad diode in the alternator. Older cars with a seperate regulator were more suseptable to this problem.
 
#26 ·
So everyone knows to well those people who drive the cars with bad fanbelts that could wake the dead whenever they start them in parking lots. The scream of a fanbelt simply cannot be ignored unless you're cranking Metal Rock.

The alternator is definitely the culprit in my case. Before the sing wasn't really distinct enough to pinpoint exactly where in the engine compartment was coming from. But now, as it is exponentially louder than before it is quite obviously that the alternator is screaming for all to hear "REPLACE ME YOU FOOL!"

So, I'm purchasing the alternator tomorrow. But in reviewing the steps for removal while engine-side, I have NO idea how I'm going to get it around everything to get it out. For one thing, it looks like it's too big to fit around the ignition coil box where the plug wires extend to the block

In addition, there seem to be vacuum hoses of some sort directly in the path that you would use to actually take it out of the engine compartment.

Now, I'm guessing most people reading this are saying....

"Holy good lord if you're so damn worried about it, just have a mechanic do it for you...."

And I would, had I not had to drop a significant amount on the deductible to get the liftgate fixed. Also, the price quotes for installation of the part alone are more than the cost of the alternator itself, so I kind of really need to do this myself if at all possible.

I've decided that when I remove the belt and can't for the life of me re-thread it along the appropriate pulley path, I figure, I have unused AAA tow miles for a reason.

I'm going to post pictures of what I'm talking about momentarily...
 
#28 ·
I've decided that when I remove the belt and can't for the life of me re-thread it along the appropriate pulley path, I figure, I have unused AAA tow miles for a reason.
:lol: Ha! You should have seen me putting a new belt on my '98. Grrr. It was unexpectedly challenging, shall we say. But probably not as bad as those engines where you have to work around an engine mount....

- G
 
#27 ·
Just do yourself a favor. Buy a new battery and the alternator at the same time. You can't use your old battery with your new alternator as your old battery has most likely been damaged by the low charge levels. Replace the battery and start the car. If you still hear the whine, go on with replacing the alternator. If you don't hear the whine, drive back to the store and return the alternator; then congratulate yourself on saving a few bucks.

I'm not saying that the alternator ISN'T the problem, all I'm saying is that you should start with the least invasive and least expensive procedure to eliminate the possibilities of what could be causing this whine. You don't do a tranny rebuild if all the old one needs is a new speed sensor, and you shouldn't replace the alternator until you're positive that the battery isn't causing the problem.
 
#29 ·
Ok, so there is a 24-hour place near by, and I picked up and installed a brand new DieHard brand battery. Unfortunately the sing is still as loud as can be.
 
#30 ·
Ok, question. I haven't gotten the time to replace the alternator yet as I've been dealing with electrical problems of a different order, in my apartment. But three days ago I noticed that in addition the singing whine of what I believe is the bearings in the alternator, the belt now sounds, loose. In that I can distintly hear the belt "running" through the pulleys with a very minor, squeak. I checked the tension and it seems to be fine, but I'm wondering if maybe this sound could be caused by the alternator getting closer to failure.

I realize that I need to replace the unit, but as I have never done it before- I need to allow myself at least 6 or so hours of free work time to allow for "oh CRAP...PANIC" time when I mess something up. I'm planning on getting to that Monday or Tuesday.

I've heard that the best thing to do is to remove the belt and hand-spin all the pulleys to see if any of them meet any resistance or if they wobble at all. That will tell me if a pulley is bad, but I'm not sure if hand-spinning it will bring out a pulley problem if there is one. Esp. considering the fact that the pulley spin at a MUCH higher rpm than they do while hand spinning.

Thoughts?
 
#35 ·
...I've heard that the best thing to do is to remove the belt and hand-spin all the pulleys to see if any of them meet any resistance or if they wobble at all. That will tell me if a pulley is bad, but I'm not sure if hand-spinning it will bring out a pulley problem if there is one. Esp. considering the fact that the pulley spin at a MUCH higher rpm than they do while hand spinning.
Thoughts?
You could chuck a rubber wheel on a Dremel and turn them with that. I think mine goes up to 25K so you should be able to run those pulleys up, depending on the diameter of the wheel.

Bearing wear on DC pulleys has been noted many times as a cause of noise in the belt assembly.

I hope your project went well and all is working as new!

jazztrumpet216...That's always been my experience. I also have noticed that as soon as some blood has been shed, everything smooths out and the project eventually concludes satisfactorily.
 
#32 ·
Alright everyone, today is the day.... dum dum dummmm. I'm either going to pull it off and get the darn alternator replaced and the belt back on in the appropriate condition, or I'm not. At which point, there will be a wee bit of cursing and gnashing of teeth... wish me luck!
 
#34 ·
At which point, there will be a wee bit of cursing and gnashing of teeth... wish me luck!
Is there any other way to work on cars? :blink: :confuzed:
 
#38 ·
Help!

I can't believe it. I've gotten through everything up to getting the alternator loose. But I can't get the stupid windshield wiper arms off to remove the cowl so I have space to see down into the back of the unit!

HELP! I've spent over an hour now trying to figure out how to get the wiper arms off and the Haynes manual is completely worthless. I got the plastic covers off and the nuts underneath, but now I'm stuck. AHH!

Cursing and gnashing of teeth going on like its my job.
 
#39 ·
I can't believe it. I've gotten through everything up to getting the alternator loose. But I can't get the stupid windshield wiper arms off to remove the cowl so I have space to see down into the back of the unit!
There is a special tool for it, but I've been told a battery clamp puller will also work.

However, I just popped the ones on my van off with a pair of vise-grips after loosening the hold-down nut one turn. The fitting is a conical splined fitting; remember where the wiper rests on the windshield before removing it as you will have to align it the same way putting it back on (or else index the arm to the threaded stud with a marker).

- G
 
#40 ·
HELP AGAIN. haha

Yes, I'm still trying to get the cowl off after getting the wiper arms off finally. The Haynes manual says to "Open the hood and release the wing nuts that hold the front of the cowel cover to the wiper module" in their directions for removing the cowl.

This makes NO sense to me. I see no wing nuts anywhere, the only things I do see are screws (permanent) through the metal that definitely cannot be taken out. but they seem to be the only things holding the "Front of the cowl" to the wiper assembly. I"ve already taken out the small hex screws

What am I missing?
 
#41 ·
This makes NO sense to me. I see no wing nuts anywhere, the only things I do see are screws (permanent) through the metal that definitely cannot be taken out. but they seem to be the only things holding the "Front of the cowl" to the wiper assembly. I"ve already taken out the small hex screws

What am I missing?
Glad you got the wiper arms off.

There are of course several (6 I think) Torx screws, plus two plastic latches that look like philips head screws. Those need to be turned to release, but not unscrewed. Then there are several nuts on the front of the wiper module cover. When I removed the cover, the thing I missed were the two middle Torx screws. Hunted around quite a bit before I found them. Like I said there should be a total of six of them.

Make sure the battery is disconnected (and covered or removed, for safety) before actually unbolting the wiper module. Easy to accidentally let the module touch the battery terminals....

- G
 
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