The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner

Alternator: Removal & Installation - Tips? Suggestions?

95K views 92 replies 20 participants last post by  Ch0pper 
#1 ·
Well, a few of you may have seen a post of mine in another thread talking about the high-pitch singing and the whining that is present in my 2000 Town & Country Limited 3.8L which corresponds to engine speed. Yesterday, I almost couldn't the van started out of the blue. It took a solid 4-5 seconds of slow molassass like cranking to get the engine going. I drove it straight to this Checker Auto place that does free charging system diagnostics, which is when I found out that my battery was so dead I shouldn't have been able to get a peep out of it. This confirmed my suspicion about the alternator. Previously I thought it could be the water pump, but now that I was told that a problem was detected and that there is an "Excess Ripple" error, I think its time for a new alternator. Now many of you may laugh, but I have never replaced an alternator before, and I have never had to remove/install the belts in any of my Town & Countrys before. I'm going to post the instructions I found for removing and replacing the alternator for the 3.3L/3.8L V6 DCX '96-'00 minivan engines. If someone could read them over and tell me if they are in fact the most appropriate instructions it would be greatly appreciated. Tips, tricks, suggestions would be helpful too.

REMOVAL
  1. Disconnect the cable from the negative terminal of the battery.
  2. Remove the windshield wiper housing.
  3. Remove the bolt holding the top of the alternator mount bracket to the engine air intake plenum.
  4. Remove the bolts holding the outside of the alternator mount bracket to the alternator mount plate.
  5. Remove the bolt holding the top of the alternator to the mount bracket.
  6. Remove the alternator mount bracket from the vehicle.
  7. Rotate the alternator toward the rear of the vehicle.
  8. Disconnect the push-in field wire connector from the back of the alternator.
  9. Remove the nut holding the B+ wire terminal to the alternator.
  10. Remove the wire/terminal from the alternator.
  11. Remove the bolt hoding the bottom of the alternator to the lower pivot bracket.
  12. Remove the alternator.

INSTALLATION
  1. Installation is the reverse of removal.
  2. After the alternator is installed, adjust the drivebelt tension.
  3. Check the charging voltage to verify proper operation of the alternator.
___________________________________________________________________
Haynes Repair Manual: Dodge Caravan, Plymouth Voyager & Chrysler Town & Country 1996 thru 1999 Mini-vans


So, what is going to be my biggest challenge?:ask_wsign Is getting the drivebelt on and off going to make me wish I were never born? Because if so, then I might have to take it somewhere, which I would really rather not do. I'm trusting that even though the manual doesn't technically include the 2000 model year, the steps are still exactly the same.
 
See less See more
#42 ·
Ok so something is very wrong with my engine then because the things you described as nuts are definitely missing all of their wings. Because literally they are just what looks like the shaft of a screw coming through the metal and i have no idea how to even get started with that.
 
#43 ·
I couldn't do it.

I followed all the directions, finally figured out how to get the stupid wiper cowl off, had the alternator all set to be lifted out... and then the wiper houseing wouldn't budge. I took every single screw and bolt out that I could find, then even had the guy at the local AutoZone take a look and it baffled him. So after a 7+ hour failed attempt, I am now going to have to shell out $200+ to have the ridiculous unit installed by the dealer because aparently I just can't seem to manage. Oh, even better... the van is inoperable now because when I put the old alternator back into place and tried to put the belt on, I couldn't get the belt on. I have the long 15mm wrench, but there is something in the engine that is physically in the way of the full range of the wrench. Thus the belt only loosens a bit but not nearly enough to slip it over the idler, or the tensioner, I tried both.

It's currently 10 minutes to 3am. I have class, 20 miles away at 8am. I need to go call a tow truck and try to figure out how the heck i could get it off, but not on. Thanks to all who were rooting for me, it is still greatly appreciated- sorry for the bummer disapointment. But my battered hands are not going to speak to me for a while if it makes you feel any better.

A word to the wise, if you've never replaced the alternator. Its a HUGE pain in the rear. Just pay the dealer to do it, TRUST Me.
 
#44 ·
Ok all, I tried once more this morning to get this done and I still ran into the same problem. I can't get the wiper module out. I've removed all the bolts and brackets I can find, but the wiper unit just won't come off like the mechanic at my local dealer said it would. Anyone done an alternator job and found a way around this?
 
#45 ·
I had the wiper module off of mine, came off without any fuss. There are about six large bolts to remove that are accessed inside of the wiper module (at the back), and about six more small ones up on the top rear of the wiper module. That plus the wiring harness, two water drains, and the windshield washer hose.

- G
 
#46 · (Edited)
Here's a visual...

I'm curious to know if that wiper housing case is permanently affixed to the firewall on some models. I know it comes out, but I've tried removing all of the bolts mentioned previously by greenlight but the thing just will not budge. (This picture was taken before work started).

In addition, the highlighted box is what is keeping me from being able to get the tensioner down far enough with a long 15mm wrench to get a brand new belt onto the idler. I can get the old on on and off no problem, but that's because its stretched out and it's quite loose. What appears inside that highlighted box is what gets in the way of the 15mm wrench when I try to extend the tensioner down far enough to get the belt over.

Now I've tried putting the bit onto the bolt in several different fashions to see if I can gain a few inches of torque, but it gets in the way every single time. What I'm wondering is if when I get the wiper unit off, it will allow me to have room enough to start the wrench up higher and thus have the required torque space to slip the new belt I have over and onto the engine.

I don't think I'm completely crazy because the guy at Checker auto whose been helping me out couldn't figure it out either.
 
#47 · (Edited)
I just finished this job last night... see the 'reverse phantom wiper thread'.. so I know you are missing something... this is what the steps are..

pop off the wiper arms.. as others have said there are tools for this, my method is a big open end wrench (15mm-ish) and a screwdriver to pry it off.. a piece of plastic under the wrench keeps me from scratching the cowl..

once the wipers are off, there are two fasteners right by the wiper posts. They look like phillips head screws, but are just 1/2 turn fastener.

The rest of the cowl is fastened to the metal brackets underneath. There are an additional set of torx head screws that hold the plastic down in the back and four stamped nuts that hold the front on the cowl.
Once the torx and stamped nuts are off, the cowl will come out.
You will need to unplug the hose for the wiper spray as well at this point.

Now you will see the wiper tray. There are four brackets (all different) that the cowl was fastened to. These need come out. use a 10mm socket and there are two nuts each.. they not come off until you unloosen the big bolts holding the tray on.

Now with a 13mm socket you can unscrew the main bolts holding the tray to the firewall. Once these are all out, the tray will be loose. If it is not loose you have missed a bolt or two.. look closely there are two at the very corners that can be hard to see, and some of the others hide behind the linkage pretty well.
At this point you will need to remove the next wiper spray connection and the drain hoses, left and right. Be careful on the drains, if you break them they are 8 bucks each and hard to find.

With the tray out, the alternator is pretty well exposed.

For the tensioner there is a special tool for this as well, to get around that in a pinch, use two open end wrenches with the second round end on the first open end as an extension... careful.. if you slip its a real knuckle buster..

Not sure if this gets you there, but hope it helps..

As a ref, the time to get the tray out should be more like 15 mins.. not at all hard.. if it is taking more than 30 mins.. you have missed a bolt or something for sure..
 
#48 ·
From Alternators to AAA

Well all, the saga continues...

I managed to get the wiper housing unit off on my third try! No applause, because I certainly don't deserve it for bugging everyone on the board about it repeatedly.

I got the new alternator installed put everything back, including the old belt considering I couldn't get the new one on. Then I drove around town for about an hour to make sure everything was running fine, which to my surprise it did.

Just when I was about to turn it off, and say goodnight to a job finally accompilished, the battery light (voltage regulator light) illuminated on the dashboard. I must've sat in the van and stared at the light, which only stared back at me, for a good ten minutes in disbelief. I spent the next half-hour rechecking all of my connections and making sure I didn't bump or break any other wires in the process, everything was fine.

Next morning, I left to go return the bad alternator (core) to Checker Auto to get my $65 back. Vehicle started fine, battery light came on and I drove the 20 minutes to the store without a problem. However on my way home, I was slowing down to stop at a stop sign when all of a sudden, everything in the van, except the engine, shut off. No radio, no gauges, no lights, no nothing. The windshield wipers that I had just turned on seemed to be extremely sluggish. So I turned them off and back on again but put them on HIGH to see if they'd speed up. No change in speed, wipers barely dragged across the windshield.

So, when I stopped at the stop sign, I decided to shut the engine off and restart it to see if maybe that would clear up whatever happened.

...............

Terrible idea, because it didn't start again.

Mind you, I'm out in the outskirts of Greeley, Colorado where you're miles from no where but 10 feet from the nearest cow. The skies were grey and the wind was beginning to get bad. (The speed limit sign near by blew off its post.) So I managed to push the van over to the side of the road and call AAA Colorado, who didn't show up for 2 1/2 hours. We tried to jump it, with no luck, we let the battery charge for a good half hour with not so much as a peep from the starter.

I had the guy drag-tow the van (which for some reason is QUITE embarassing) to the nearest Chrysler dealer- Champion Chrysler, part of the Champion AutoPlex at Iron Mountain in Greeley. I dropped it off and being stuck at the dealer with no one to call for a ride, the dealer called Enterprise to get me a rental car. I specifically asked for a compact (CHEAP) and what I got was a brand-new gray 2007 Dodge Magnum station wagon.

Anyway, that was yesterday- today I get a phone call from Champion Chrysler service with really awful news:

  1. PCM (Power Control Module) is malfunctioning and requires replacement.
  2. Drivebelt Tensioner is "bad" and requires replacement (explains why I thought I heard a loose belt)
  3. The remanufactured Nippondenso alternator I bought and installed was bad, and died and thus, requires replacement.
  4. Due to the obvious trauma, my DieHard battery is shot and requires replacement.
  5. They can't even tell if there is anything else wrong until they get a new PCM which they have to order and have shipped.
But he did have one good piece of news:

"Don't worry, nothing you did in replacing the alternator could have caused these problems, trust me. From the looks of how it's installed, I wouldn't have been able to tell that someone other than a mechanic had done it, good job."

"Good job." <-- HAH.

So here's what we're looking at:

  • $600 PCM + labor
  • $200 Belt Tensioner & labor
  • $90 Battery & Labor
  • $190 Alternator & Labor
  • $175 For the rented Dodge Magnum for 5 days. (They actually don't have anything smaller.)
  • Whatever ELSE is wrong with the van.
All for the low low price of: $1255.00+

Here's the funny part, at the end of that fabulous phone call the service technician said "very nice van, impecable condition, very lucky guy."

And the funny thing is, I'm not even sure if he was being sarcastic or not.

Oh! Even better? Because it's going to take so darned long to do ALL of this, I have to cancel the body shop appointment that I've been waiting for, for over a month to get the bashed in liftgate repaired from when my van got hit.
Add the $500 insurance deductible that I have to pay for *that* repair to the equation...

$1755.00+, Grand total girls and gents. :cry:

w00t.

I really miss my faithful has-never-given-me-THIS-much-trouble-EVER 1996 Chrysler Town & Country LX 3.3L... granted the body damage to the 2000 T&C isn't the car's fault, but still.
 
#49 ·
Update...

The belt I bought to put in is the wrong one. Which is why I had so much trouble getting it in and ended up not installing. (Thanks to Checker Auto!) And the one that was in the van already is now shot because of the trauma it was exposed to with the locking alternator and such.

New Belt, another $35.00........whee!

Apparently 2 of the torx screws holding down the wiper cowl flew off, and they actually don't have them at the dealer, which I think is just funny.
 
#50 ·
I am amazed that the PCM ended up being bad too. But on these vans, the voltage regulator is built into the PCM - the PCM directly controls the alternator field (rotor) winding current. So I guess it's not a totally outlandish sort of thing to happen.

- G
 
#51 ·
Well, I stopped by the dealer today and they had just put in a PCM from another Town & Country to see if the van would run and allow the diagnostic scan tool to do its thing.

The sound the van made when it started I think turned everyone's hair grey if it wasn't already.

Back to the drawing board while we wait for a brand new PCM.
 
#52 ·
I haven't been following this thread real close, but something just doesn't sound right...

He swore that the new alternator didn't fry everything, that all that just happened at once. I don't necessarily buy that.

I would believe that your battery was low on charge, after powering your engine for a while. But I would make them test it on a battery tester before I'd pay for a replacement.

While it's possible that you got a bad Denso alternator out of the box, I would really question that claim, especially given everything else that happened. I might see if they'd let me take the Denso alternator back to the place you bought it and have them test it.

I'm wondering if your PCM wasn't bad all along, and was killing everything else in the van along with it. If the voltage regulator really is in the PCM (I didn't know that), that could give a false negative on the alternator. The fact that they traded PCMs with another one and that didn't solve anything would make me hesitate about allowing them to order a new one. But you're in a tough situation because they have your vehicle...
 
#53 ·
Yesterday I went back to the dealer to pick up the dead alternator as I told them that I wanted it back so that I could return it. I brought it back to Checker Auto Parts and had them test the alternator, sure enough it failed 2 of the 3 tests that were run on it and I got my money back. In terms of the PCM, I have no idea- I agree with your suspicions on it, but they received the new PCM yesterday and put it in this morning and it seems to be working fine.

I had the battery tested before the van died and it indicated that the battery was going - so I'm not really upset about the battery as I knew that was coming.

Anymore I have no idea where the voltage regulator is, I'm getting conflicting reports. Now they're chasing after why my power door locks are having repeated seizures while the vehicle is in motion. I thought it might be due to damange incurred in the accident in which my car was rear ended in a hit-and-run. However after taking the shell of the liftgate off they found that there was no damange to the internal components and that the linkages and locking mechanisms were working in perfect order, and that all the contact points were clean.

I am a wee-bit jealous of the 4th generation's ability to shut off the power door locks without having to involve the dealer.
 
#55 ·
I am a wee-bit jealous of the 4th generation's ability to shut off the power door locks without having to involve the dealer.
If you are referring to the automatic rolling lock that occurs at about 18 MPH, I am 100% sure you can do it. My 95 could do it, I have seen posts from other 3rd gen owners about it as well. Double check the owner's manual. It involves a sequence of cycling the ignition key, and hitting the driver door power lock button.

The thing that maybe you can't do, and most 4th gens can't do without involving the dealer, is to turn on and off the "auto unlock in Park" feature--that feature that unlocks all doors when you put the transmission in Park.
 
#56 ·
No no, I know you can do do that with the third generation vans. I mean disengage the power locks entirely.
 
#58 ·
Originally Posted by Chrysler1924
No no, I know you can do do that with the third generation vans. I mean disengage the power locks entirely.

<Sitting here scratching my head and winding my watch...> Why on earth would you want to do that?

I have been wondering the same. :confused:
 
#60 ·
Everybody Cross Your Fingers

They're supposedly going to be done fixing my 2000 Town & Country Limited today!

It's been at the dealer for a week and it's taken absolutely forever for UPS to deliver parts I guess. Everyone hope that I can finally get my van back! While driving around a Cobalt isn't the worst, it certainly is no 3rd gen. Town & Country LTD.
 
#63 ·
Update

I'll never understand how the van sat at the dealer for a week, they didn't get the parts in until this MORNING...and they call me at noon to tell me it's done.

Good service I guess, but an entire week of waiting for like 4-5 hours of work haha. Anyways *drum roll*

THE 2000 TOWN & COUNTRY IS FIXED! (Now the only thing that's broken is my wallet).

Now I've just got to wait until 07 March to take it in and get liftgate repaired.
It actually started without coughing up all sorts of junk and idles without that blasted whine, which apparently was the bad tensioner, and not the alternator- though the alternator was bad anyway.

So new battery, PCM, belt tensioner, serpentine v-belt. w00t.

You'll see the smily face next to the 2000 in my signature has been changed to reflect current status!
 
#65 ·
It actually started without coughing up all sorts of junk and idles without that blasted whine, which apparently was the bad tensioner, and not the alternator- though the alternator was bad anyway.
I am in the UK, driving a 1997 Chrysler Grand Voyager 3.3 LE

I have a similar problem, singing or 'chirping' noise from one of the accessories powered by the serpentine belt.

The tensioner was the first suspect - the bearing turned out to be OK, but the spring arm was partly seized. Replaced the whole tensioner (£70 / $160 canadian !!). No difference.

Checked the idler pulley. Bearing slightly 'rough' so replaced it with the good one from the old tensioner. No difference.

Checked the A/C compressor clutch. Another 'rough' bearing. I've just picked up a new bearing from a local factor - Nachi brand, part# 30BG5222-2DSE - and will fit it when (if !) it stops raining.

If that doesn't fix the noise, next up is the alternator. I have been told that these alternators have an 'overrun clutch' which can get noisy.

Think you had problems removing the alternator? My GV has an LPG conversion. Bet you can't guess where all the components and pipework for that is - top of the engine bay, left hand side.:jpshakehe

You mentioned getting the wrong size serpentine belt. That might be a fault of MOPAR. I got a new belt from the local Chrysler dealer here in UK. They ordered it based on the VIN number and vehicle registration number- IT IS TOO LONG ! Other people in the UK have also mentioned an error in the MOPAR parts catalogue which gives the wrong part number for the belt.

The easy way to remove/replace the serpentine belt is from under the car.
15mm ring spanner on the tensioner pulley nut, 14 mm ring spanner on the other end of the 15mm as a 'cheater bar' and pull towards the rear of the car about 1/8 turn. When replacing the belt, I thread it around all the pulleys, but leave it off the water pump pulley, pull on the tensioner and slip the belt up over the WP pulley. I can now replace a belt quicker than removing a wheel !
 
#64 ·
I ordered a new brush assy & bearings last fall and just recently rebuilt a spare Alternator I had when this one finally failed. All in all I had about $35 and 3 hours invested including removal and installing the rebuilt one.

It was actually quite easy, I do suggest an air impact to remove the pulley nut tho. From what I have read these altinators can be rebuilt several times as long as the armature and rings are in good condition.

I do still have that anoying best whine/squeak that is inherent to most of these vans and after replacing the bearing in the tensioner and idler pulley the noise remains and is only gone when the belt is removed. I have given up and faced that it will always be there.

I hope this helps someone, as I know I saved at least $100.00

 
#66 ·
Ugh I'm so sorry about what's going on with your belt-drives. I'm peeved because two different Chrysler dealer mechanics told me that its "simple" to remove/install the belt from the top of the engine. It turns out that the belt was just the right size, its just impossible to install it from the top even though getting the old one off is possible through the top.

Watch your A/C Compressor... that went on my '96 a few months ago and that announced itself with a really awful "whoosing" air sound in the engine. That's like an $800+ job right there. Just fyi... I'm counting the days until it goes on my 2000...
 
#69 ·
Ugh I'm so sorry about what's going on with your belt-drives. I'm peeved because two different Chrysler dealer mechanics told me that its "simple" to remove/install the belt from the top of the engine. It turns out that the belt was just the right size, its just impossible to install it from the top even though getting the old one off is possible through the top
I find it easier to put the belt on everything but the idler, then pull down on the tensioner and slide it onto the idler.
 
#67 ·
Well this noise has been there since I first purchased the van. It only ceases occasionally and when you install a new belt (for about an hour or so)

The Chrysler parts guy said "They all do it" and smiled, tho I didnt find it very funny.

I have had no problem changing the belt from the top and the bearing on the compressor is easy to replace as well (done that) I now have the rear heater lines leaking and the dealer wants over $200 for both sets! Thats a load of crap! I can not seem to find the correct hose size to fit them as it must be some odd ball line size, so I may have to buy the entire line sets :(
Chrysler is starting to suck, but I love my van!
 
#68 ·
I now have the rear heater lines leaking and the dealer wants over $200 for both sets! Thats a load of crap!
Go out and bend some tubing on your own in that shape to duplicate then, and sell for $100. You'll be rich!! :D

Those lines take some pretty funky bends - I wouldn't want to have to go custom on them, that's for sure. However, given the place they normally fail, a hose is probably the cheapest and easiest fix.
 
#70 ·
The 2000 Town & Country Limited struck me down again!

So I'm driving to class this morning and I realize, "oh crap! I was supposed to get m oil changed a little over 1,000 miles ago according to the sticker." I figured going 4,000+ miles on an oil change wasn't the worst thing in the world, but certainly not recommended. So I made a call to Champion Chrysler over at Ironmountain Autoplex in Greeley and made a 4pm appointment to get my oil changed and the wheels rotated.

I get to the dealer and pull the van up to the service door where you're supposed to drop it off. I go inside to the service desk and the technician greets me and tells me he'll be right back. He takes my key and goes out to the van to take down the mileage, VIN, etc. He returns only a moment later to tell me that there is a HUGE pool of fluid rapidly forming directly below the front passenger side of the engine compartment.

Horrified, I whipped around to look out the window and there it was, a rapidly growing pool of what could only have been coolant flowing out from under the van. He then turns to me and says "Perhaps we should take a look at this for you..." I was going to argue that he had no proof that it was my specific vehicle that leaked all over the place, but there hadn't been a car parked in that spot previously, and seeing as the spot was in the direct sunlight, the likelihood of a spill being that fresh for that length of time was not likely. It was growing too which meant my van was obviously the culprit.

In the time it took me to give him all of my information, 90% of the coolant managed to leak out onto the parking lot in front of the dealer. If you haven't experienced this, it is QUITE embarassing. Several salesmen who were out patrolling the lot kept walking by with concerned looks on their faces and radioing back and fourth. Apparently it was *so* bad that one of the mechanics actually working the shop had to add coolant, and then quick drive the van around into the shop before it all leaked out again. Yay for subtle entrances van, way to go.

So now, less than a month after that van was TOWED to that dealer for a rather expensive laundry list of repairs...including replacing the PCM, Belt Tensioner, Serpentine Belt, Alternator, and the van being out of commission for over a week, it's BACK! And I found myself walking around completing one of those visual checks of yet another GM rental car, courtesy Enterprise Rent-A-Car, AGAIN. Many of you may even remember the review I wrote on the Chevrolet Cobalt after I rented one the last time the van was in the shop. I told the guy at the service desk that I wanted to be brought into the shop and I wanted a mechanic to show me SPECIFICALLY what is wrong with it, just so I know and so I can make sure that I'm not being swindled. Minutes later the van was halfway up on a lift, leaking like a siv in front of a rather tired looking mechanic. He proceeds to show me that the thermostat failed and that the radiator cap is bad. Apparently they're supposed to withstand 16 pounds of pressure, but mine was only withstanding about 10-11 pounds.

Right there, parts + labor - $170.95

Just as I'm about to go back to the service desk the mechanic beckons me over to look at my wheels. "Why?" I ask. "What's wrong?" He proceeds to tell me that when I bought the van back in January. They sold it to me with the front brakes literally on their last leg. According to the mechanic, I have approximately 1-2 weeks before I get to join the metal on metal fraternity. Now you would think I would be able to tell my brakes were going- but I just figured that the reason it was taking longer to stop was because my 2000 Town & Country is a LWB van and is MUCH heavier than my SWB 1996 Town & Country, so I never thought anything of it.

Front Brake job, parts + labor - $190.95

Now before everyone starts giving me the "buyer beware" speech, hear me out. I have a RIGHT to be angry because I spent $150 having a mechanic that comes highly-recommended out here look the 2000 Town & Country over top to bottom, inside and out before I bought it.

In his words he said: "This is a fine automobile you got here sir, I just wish I'd found it before you did! Only trouble I see is that there's a bit of corrosion on the battery terminals. Other than that, she runs great and she's good to go- could never tell she's 7 years old without lookin' at the paperwork."

Mind you, the van was making that terrible whirring sound that ended up being a bad alternator and belt tensioner slowly dying.

I'm at a loss here my forum friends- I just don't know what to do. I'm now stuck driving a freakin' midnight blue Pontiac Vibe, of ALL things. (Review to come shortly...)
 
#71 ·
The thermostat and rad cap are two items that do periodically have to be replaced. There really isn't any way to tell a bad thermostat until it goes. Your mechanic was probably able to pressurize the radiator cap, but there's no way to know for sure it was bad when the van was inspected. So on those two things, I'd probably give your mechanic a pass. However, there isn't any excuse for not finding worn brake pads. The mechanic should have taken the wheels off and looked at the brakes. So I won't give you the "buyer beware" speech, but I will give you the "find a different mechanic" speech.

I would be surprised however if the brakes weren't making any sounds at all. Usually the wear indicators are pretty obnoxious. Of course, if your alternator was squealing, you might not have heard them....
 
#72 ·
In regards to the "find a different mechanic" speech, I did. That's the place where the van has now been twice. I got referred to Weld County Garage by not only several friends, but family, so I thought there couldn't be a problem. But then they screwed me over and that was that. But you hit the nail on the head with the brake indicators. The noise was so loud that it started to compete with the radio. But that doesn't change the fact that I didn't hear them after I got the alternator fixed, except that maybe by then the indicators had burned off. Oye. haha.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top