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2005 Chrysler Town & Country w/ Instrument Cluster Flickering & Electrical mayhem

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#1 ·
2005 Chrysler Town & Country w/ Instrument Cluster Flickering & Electrical mayhem

Hello all! Great site for us soccer vehicle drivers. I too am suffering headaches from the 4th Gen Electrical gremlins. I have looked all over this site and found thread that discussed what seemed to be exactly what I am going through but had no resolution (like a lot of the threads here :jpshakehe). So here we go.

Our van is a touring edition with a 3.8L engine and approx 77K miles

The symptoms we suffer:

Flickering odometer
Flickering Gear indicator (PRND3L)
Sweeping gauges (Speedometer, Tachometer, Fuel, and Heat)
Radio cutting out for a quick moment and turning back on
If the A/C and or heater is off, a quick burst of air will come out
Headlight flickering
ABS and Brake light on instrument Cluster will briefly come on and then turn off
TRAC OFF indicator will turn on and off
Driver side sliding door almost closes completely and will re-open for no reason
Flickering interior lights
Occasionally, engine feels like it stutters about to turn off when all this happens.
A few times the engine has actually turned off. When that happens, the gauges will sweep all the way to max and then reset back to zero

All of the above mentioned items typically happen all together in harmony as if they were in a 70's disco.

What I've done so far to try to fix it:

Replaced the battery with a brand new factory (Chrysler) battery - $180
Replaced the IPM, Relays and fuses - $900
Replaced the BCM, - $600
Checked and cleaned the main ground (under the Battery tray) and instrument cluster ground (near the "B" piller on Driver side) - $150
Load test on New Battery and Alternator - $150

All of the fixes have been done a Chrysler Dealerships and they've spent about 3 weeks with the van (total).
As you can see, we have almost $2K invested in the fix and still having issues.

None of the 5 dealerships have been able to duplicate the problem. This is frustrating because it seems like I am just crying wolf to them. I have plenty of Cell phone video that I have taken of the problem as it is happening but they say it doesn't help.

One thing I have noticed, the van will act up on me when I am at exactly 1750RPM. It doesn't matter what gear I'm in as long as I am in a forward gear. If I engage the cruise control and set it to exactly 1750RPM, the van puts on quite a show!

OK all you experts, any thoughts?! please?! I am up to here with this thing...:nut:

Thanks all!
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Posted this by accident the other day (last entry). Thought I wasted my time. Maybe not. Your symptoms aren't identical but there's plenty that's similar: http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-c...ash-lights-flicker-radio-off-engine-dies.html

That 1750 RPM is something new to this problem. Could be a voltage spike from the alternator at that particular rpm. Could be harmonic resonance vibration effecting a connection or a chaffed wire touching structure. Could be doesn't help you much though.

Sad to see you've dumped all those bucks into it with nothing to show for it. Sad fact is many have done the same on this problem. I try to tell everyone to go online and file a complaint with the NHTSA. They are the folks who determine if recalls are warranted if the manufacturer turns a blind eye to it. Course we all know Chrysler Corp would never do such a thing... and pigs fly! When the NHTSA get enough complaints they investigate then make a determination on a recall. No complaints - no recall.
 
#3 ·
You mentioned the posting from the other website. I am taking the liberty to copy and paste what you wrote:

I've been cruising forums for several years and have read about this problem far too many times. 3rd generation vans had the instrument cluster solder joint issue. This problem is in the running to be the 4th generation vans big electrical headache. Unfortunately, there isn't one single fix for it but several. Some get away with a simple alternator change, some change both the alternator and the PCM. Unfortunately, for many it turns into the nightmare you're experiencing.

In your case it can be the aforementioned damaged wire harness routed under the battery tray. Another trouble spot is that small cable leading from the positive battery connection to the IPM (fuse box). Either the crimp in the battery connection loosens up or gets corroded to the point it looses contact or the IPM connection is loose or the cable itself can corrode internally essentially braking the wire inside the insulation. One fix I read was to "piggy back" a second cable from the battery to the IPM leaving the original in place. Theory being, at least in his case, the cable wasn't big enough to carry the load. Another problem area is the IPM itself. This usually happens on earlier 4th generation vans but the IPM has an internal circuit board that can corrode and create all sorts of electrical havoc. Same for the connections on the bottom.

One way to prove any of this, though not totally conclusive is to try a simple shake test on the cables and connections mentioned with the engine running while someone is watching inside for any changes.

True to form for all forums, most don't complete the cycle and tell us what fixes this. Posted here is information from about half a dozen of the 2-3 dozen threads I've come across concerning this issue. Please, when you get this fixed and you will, let us know what the culprit was.

Almost forgot. Can't count out a possible PCI data bus problem. It integrates nearly all of the electronics on the van. Problem areas are the BCM, instrument cluster and wiring. Power sliding door (yes they are on the data bus) wire harness located in a track at the bottom of each door are a known problem.
 
#4 ·
After reading that thread, I do have two other existing symptoms - the passenger airbag off light flickers as well and I get a warning "chime" when things are starting to get bad. I will have a the Chrysler Dealership look at the cables going to and from the battery, alternator, and IPM looked at very closely. I will also have them do a full on Voltage test on the alternator as well to see if the alternator is the issue. I will post back tomorrow with what they find at the Dealership. Thanks!
 
#5 ·
OK ALL, As promised. So I finally got my vehicle back this afternoon from the Chrysler dealership and they told me the problem was fixed! As I am driving the 10 miles to get home, the problems show up almost immediately and my instrument cluster looks like a 70's disco again! You ask, What did they fix?! Here's what they did:

They showed me the several load tests they did on the battery and the alternator in different scenarios. All came back normal for the van.
They removed the instrument cluster, checked, cleaned and tightened all the connections and put it back together.
They inspected the ignition switch - they said it works properly.
Looked at the Battery terminals and power from the battery to the IPM, did load testing on them as well - Came back totally normal.
Took it for a "lengthy road test" and said to be perfect working condition.

So I am fuming at this point, ready to junk my van. I am pretty much done with it right about this time. When I get home, I jump on this site and started writing my disgusted feedback when all of a sudden it dawned on me to re-read others posts in different threads starting with this one. RIP suggested not ruling out the door harnesses which have not been looked at. I looked this up and found some threads talking about it as well.

So I decided to give it a try. I disconnected the driver side slider harness and took it for a test drive - problem still persisted. I reconnected it and disconnected the passenger side slider harness. I took it for a test drive - symptoms are gone! I did everything I knew thus far to recreate the problem in my van and still showed no symptoms! Could it be?! I am feeling a little gitty right now because I think I can see some light at the end of the tunnel! I am keeping it disconnected and will continue to drive it that way for a while to see if the gremlins return. I will keep you all posted!

Thanks RIP! If this is truly the culpit I have you to thank for directing me to this area! I would have never thunk!!! :)
 
#6 · (Edited)
Glad I remembered it. Here's a video on the subject. When you inspect the wire harness pay particular attention to a white wire with a violet stripe. That is the data bus feed from the BCM to the sliding door controller in the door. Sure hope you found that smoking gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705hcJqOf6U

BTW - I think it was 2009s and 10s that had a safety recall for chaffed wires in these wire tracks. They were causing fires and erratic instruments and stalling. Hmmm.
 
#8 ·
Well, Here we are on Tuesday evening and I can report that I have logged roughly 300 miles in 3 days. I have still to replace or do something with my passenger side sliding door, but what I can report is that the Gremlins have yet to show there face! I do believe I have found the issue. Now my question was, Is it the Wiring or the Crash sensor that causes my van to spaz out?! I do have side impact curtain airbags back there and I knew that the sensor is located on the same communication wire. How I figured out it was NOT the sensor is I reconnected the wiring harness at the Pillarbetween the doors on the passenger side and disconnected the crash sensor an took her for a spin. It immediately acted up. So I did one more test to make sure I had the right piece of wiring giving me the issue. I connected the crash sensor and disconnected only the door from the harness (located on door on the inside near the bottom. No need to remove any panels as it is clearly visible if you just look at the inner bottom portion of the sliding door). Again, I took it for a spin and it eventually gave me problems. So there you have it. It is the wiring harness from the Pillar to the door and crash sensor. It should take a whopping 10 minutes to replace it and this part is commonly found at any Chrysler dealership in stock. It is a common part that is replced with great frequesncy.

**One thing to note for whomever might read this thread thinking they might have the same issues...I have received confirmation that ALL of the communication with the BCM, to and from, is on a single wire throughout the whole van! That is what a Chrysler MASTER certified electrical technician specifically trained on on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th Gen minivans said regarding this specific year (2005) mini-van. So it is indeed like finding a needle in a hay-stack when it comes to all the flickering, etc. RIP is correct that they do have the ususal suspects, but don't give up if it is not one of those mentioned early on. There are ways to test everything on the van. Don't do what I did and say, "change it anyway to rule it out". I spent over $2K needlessly on finding out that the problem I can easlly fix on my own with a $100 (on the high side) part and 10 minutes of my time.

Good luck with your mini-van everyone! And to RIP...I owe you a beer my friend!!! Cheers! :D
 
#9 ·
06 grand caravan

I would really like to understand.

You said on 10/22 posting that you disconnecting wiring harness from sliding door. Van ran great. But wasn't the crash sensor still wired in which would have given you the same original problems?

So, the crash sensor and slidding door harness are on the same line. But do they connect in 2 different locations?

But what did you finally do? Replace a 3 feet piece of wiring or just leave off both crash sensor and door harness connections?

Where is the actual location of the door sensor. What does it look like?

Thanks for any info?
 
#10 ·
donpeyoyo - If you can find the time and have a camera can you post some pictures. I was having a hard time picturing that too. Might clarify it for everyone.

That beer sure sounds good. Post some pics and we'll call it even. :beerchug:
 
#13 ·
OK
On all new vehicles they have multiple signals going on one wire with a computer to control everything.
This was done to reduce weight since they keep adding more stuff people want to their vehicles.
The weight savings is substantial but does not make it easier for us to work on them.
If you have an electrical diagram, you can see the various harnesses on our vans and where the common connector is to another harness.
It also shows you where the ground connections are. I had to do that with the fuel injection harness when I was diagnosing it.
It is easy to go through the diagram if you know how to interpret it.
I'll post one for my 2009 Grand Caravan to show you.
Sometimes these connectors are loose or corroded and it is an easy fix, other times it is a PITA.
I picked up my van from a shop a few years ago and my speedo needle was on the wrong side :(
Thankfully I remembered the fix and I mentioned it to the shop. (no discount though)
When the vans run well they are great, when the gremlins come, it can be frustrating.
I still can't believe the Chrysler dealerships do not know about the fuel injector harness problem yet. Looking at that one area and inspecting it can solve so many headaches for everyone involved. I use Alldata quite a bit, and the Internet comes a close second to helping fix my van.
I have a 2001 which is the 1st year of the 4th gen and have not had any serious electrical gremlin faults that have not been able to be fixed.
 
#14 ·
This pertains to a 2010 Dodge Grand Caravan but the 1st link is similar to the 4th gen and explains the wiring diagrams

2010 Dodge wiring code identification information:
http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2010/docs/intro/wirecode.pdf

Perusing this site, you will find wiring diagrams for a 2010 Dodge Grand Caravan. (this is just to give you an idea of what is in the books)
The technical books for the 4th gen have the wiring diagrams, etc in them and are valuable for tracing issues.
2010 Dodge Grand Carava C/V
http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2010/rs/grandcaravanmo.pdf
 
#15 ·
If you look on Carguru you will find my problem with the idiot lights coming on. Today my internet search paid off. I narrowed it down to the instrument cluster or the Body Control Module and ordered both off the internet. The $99 instrument cluster came today and I put it in. Yippee, the darn lights didn't come on for the first 25 miles and I figure since they came on in sometimes a 1/2 block, I have it fixed. I got mine from instrumentclusterstore.com.
 
#16 ·
Resolved Instrument cluster failure 2006 T&C van

I resolved my flickering, re-booting, dying then re-starting instrument panel. It eventually died out completely. Removed connector on back of cluster. Checked for 12v at pin 6 which is top row far left; its a brown wire with red stripe. No voltage. Went to underside of the IPM box and probed the brown-red wires (2) at pin 6 of connector 9, which is the the black one at rear center. There was 12v there, so it appeared to be a break in the wire between IPM and cluster connector. Under the dash there is a large wire junction block with a bolt clamping it together. The cluster power wire runs through this and its the only connector between IPM and cluster. So I found it and there was no voltage (KEY IN RUN when checking), but there was perfect continuity up to the cluster connector....therefore the break had to be on the other side. I pulled the splash guards off the front wheel and looked at the bundle of wire that runs from IPM to the cab. One small green spot (like copper corrosion) caught my eye. Unwrapped bundle right there and guess which wire was nicked and corroded right through? No idea how a single wire got damaged but once the salt spray got in there it did its work. Thanks to all the people who take time to write their solutions and to the mechanic at justanswer that cut my trouble shooting time way down....well worth the $25 plus tip ;) After reading all the nightmares with this issue I really thought I would be guessing my speed and gassing up every two days for the life of the van
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the follow up but I am not sure how we helped, seeing as this is your first post.
Perhaps you were another screen name in another life.

Glad to get your feedback though. Someone on here just summed it up perfectly when it comes to electrical problem, and I paraphrase:" Electrical problems can take hour, even days to locate and mere seconds to fix"

Are your the gent from South Dakota who was going Kamakaze on the dash and having mixed results with that correction?
 
#18 ·
Just bought a 2005 tc and it just started have nearly all the same symptoms as OPs. Lucky I found this thread before I dumped thousands into it. Unplugging my passenger side slider door seems to have fixed it! Huge thanks to op and others that helped in this thread. Just wanted to post this so others having the same problem can see this worked for more than just you.
 
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