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'06 3.8L engine removal

35K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  dun4now 
#1 ·
I have a 2006 Town and Country Touring edition. While I knew it was using oil, apparently it used faster than I replaced. The other day, the wife was driving it and it suddenly started making a loud clacking noise from the engine. (louder than a clicking valve, not as loud as a thrown rod).
Short story is that the dealer says an engine replacement is needed. Has anyone pulled an engine from an 06? Can the engine come out upwards, or does the body get lifted away from the engine? I have an alternate vehicle, so I have some time to get this job done. Is it a DIY?

I looked through the forums and couldn't find this specific question, so I apologize if this has been covered already.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
Just out of curiosity, how many miles did it have, and how much oil was it using?

I was looking on car-part.com the other day, they had plenty of used motors for sale. I just got one put in by my dealer from Mill-Iron Recycling. They got it for ~$900 w/60K miles on it.

Personally, if I had time and another vehicle, I would take a crack at it. How much worse can it get??? :p
 
#3 ·
The van has about 50k miles on it. The oil would get about 2 quarts low between oil changes (every 3-4k miles). I admit that I and the wife were not super diligent about checking the oil, but with most vehicles we haven't had to be. Also, no dripping on garage floor or smoking or other usual tell-tale signs. I guess this implies that the oil is seeping past the rings and getting burned off?

I was looking through the Haynes repair manual and it says that a vehicle hoist is necessary. That could be the show stopper of doing the repair myself unless someone has some alternatives. The manual also says that the drive axles have to be pulled from the transmission?

The auto shops have rebuilt long blocks for around $2000 (3yr warrenty).

The other alternative would be to replaces just the heads (to address the sudden onset clacking noise) and hope the lower end isn't too messed up? I really don't like that alternative, but could buy me some time to get through a financial tough spell.

Any other thoughts or ideas out there?
Thanks
 
#4 ·
My mechanic said they had a van come in burning about 1qt/700 miles, and they did a valve job on the heads, which fixed it (1 qt/2-3K miles).

Since you're not sure about having to drop the motor, and maybe trying to avoid that, I would buy a used motor for about $900. Pull the heads from yours, put the ones from the used motor on it, and see if that fixes it. If not, you still have your spare block.

I'm thinking you should be able to do the head work with the motor still in, although you may need to loosen a motor mount or two to allow movement of the motor to get to a bolt or two. It will be a PITA tho, cause you'll have to pull off the exhaust manifolds, and that rear one will be a pain.
 
#5 ·
Qnen:

WOW......................50k miles and that kind of oil usage. Our 05 at 61k uses 1 qt. roughly every 3k. I run Mobil 1 which has been known to burn in some motors, and not in others.

Consider this:

Several folks have had valve train issues such as failed rocker arms and valve springs with the 3.8. If I were you, I would pull the valve covers to be sure you don't have a much simpler repair that can be done without engine removal.

Its also a shame that the 06s did not have the 7/70 power train warranty, as your bill would not exceed $100.

These Chrysler engines including the 3.8 are pretty tough for the most part if you keep enough oil in them and don't run them like the Indy 500.

I just bet you might have an easier repair that you think. If not, with that low of mileage you will want to spend enough to put a good motor back in there so it will last you a good long time..




Don
 
#6 ·
I have taken the advice on the thread and opted to just tear into the engine with it still in the vehicle. So far I've removed the hood, front bumper cover, windshield wiper/cowling to gain decent access to the engine bay. So far so good. I've gotten the intake manifolds off and hopefully by tomorrow will have time to get the heads off.

One thing I noticed is that there seems to be a lot of oil residue in the intake manifolds. Is this normal? Again 3.8L 2006 with 50k miles.
 

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#7 ·
That seems pretty wet, but for the most part, it's normal. Check the PCV system for correct operation. If what's in the intake system is excessive, the PCV system may be overwhelmed and causing increased oil consumption. I would pull the valve covers first, and see what's in there. You may find a broken valve or broken valve spring. From the sounds of it, there may be a problem with a lifter, in which case the lower intake manifold would have to come out to gain access.
 
#8 ·
I would say that is a little too wet. Also from the looks of it, the egr was dumping lots of soot into the intake. But that really depends on your fuel, I always buy "better" fuels (shell or BP) and my intake is very clean with light oil residue.
 
#9 ·
Qnen:

Here is to hoping that you find a simpler cause/repair than an engine replacement. Since I can't be there in the flesh as it were, I will be there in spirit.

The front valve cover should come off without too much fuss, but the rear one is a different story. Murphy's law says you will find the issue back there.

These engines hold 4.5 quarts of oil, and I think that is ridiculous. I always put in 5 quarts with the mindset that an extra half quart won't hurt. That reasoning has not come back to haunt me YET!

Even if your engine was two quarts down, I don't think you would hurt it unless you were towing or running 90mph.

Good luck and keep us informed on what you find! Don
 
#10 ·
Well, the heads are off. By the way, the exhaust manifolds are indeed a pain to get off. Had to get out the dremel tool and cut two nuts off the rear manifold. At least they were easy to get to (NOT).

Unfortunately no major smoking gun to be found. Some signs of wear on the rocker arm shaft, even less signs of wear on the lifters. I even took some of the lifters apart to see if there was anything amiss inside them. They all look good.

I didn't see any signs of leaking at any of the gaskets, so I guess that is good. There was a little carbon build up in all the combustion chambers, but it looked pretty even for all 6. I can still see the cross hatch pattern on the cylinder walls. I would have thought after 50k miles, those would have worn down more.

Tomorrow, I will take off the oil pan and see if there are any issues down there.

Is it worth putting new lifters and rocker arm shafts in since I have it all apart? I can't imagine that the wear I'm seeing is the cause of the noise, but I can't find anything else... What are the thoughts regarding taking the heads to a shop to have the valve guides and seats checked out? I don't have the tools to mess with those springs.

Any other ideas of what to check?

Thanks
Michael
 
#11 ·
It is not worth replacing the lifters or rockers unless they show signs of scuffing. Roller lifters rarely go bad even when run low on oil as the crank bearings go bad long before the lifters do. You'll have to keep digging to find the source of the knock.
 
#12 ·
Well Andyg, I kept digging and finally found something. Number 1 piston bearing is bad. I dropped the oil pan and played with all the rod ends. They all have a little side to side movement (.012 to .016), but I can only move one up and down (so as to move piston up down in bore). It moves noticably. Try as I might, I can feel any looseness in the main crank bearings.

While I'm at it, should I replace all 6 rod bearings or just the one? For now I will gamble and leave the main bearings alone since to replace them, I need to get the crank out and I assume that means seperating engine from transmission.
 
#14 ·
I would replace all the rod bearings, they take a huge beating when run out of oil, the mains do too but not as bad.

The bearing didn't spin in the rod end did it? If so, you have bigger issues or that bearing will keep going bad.
 
#15 ·
Already on it. After I posted my last comment, I reread what I had written and realized it sounded silly not to go ahead and do all 6. Number 1 was the worst wear. Doesn't look like it spun. The tabs on the bearing inserts were still good and no scratches on the bearing cap.

I am not even going to look at the mains, because I'm afraid of what I will find.

Any idea how they make the rod ends? After unbolting the caps, I thought I would find a nice machined surface where the bearing cap meets the rest of the rod. Not the case. It almost looks like the rod ends were cast as a single piece and then "broken" apart, ie the surfaces are rough and uneven, not a trace of machining. I noticed this as I removed the first cap. I examined the other caps before I took them off, and I could hardly see the joint where cap meets rod. Seems like there might be an interesting story as to how they are made.

Now that I have an answer for what was making the "clacking" noise and can look forward to reassembly, the only thing to dread is that rear exhaust header to catalytic converter flange. How the h3ll are you suppose to reach that one with a wrench and not need about 3 elbows in your arm?

Thanks
Michael
 
#16 ·
Any idea how they make the rod ends? After unbolting the caps, I thought I would find a nice machined surface where the bearing cap meets the rest of the rod. Not the case. It almost looks like the rod ends were cast as a single piece and then "broken" apart, ie the surfaces are rough and uneven, not a trace of machining. I noticed this as I removed the first cap. I examined the other caps before I took them off, and I could hardly see the joint where cap meets rod. Seems like there might be an interesting story as to how they are made
That is exactly how some connecting rods are made. DO NOT mix up the order of the caps.

Some manufacturers do this because it enables precise location of the connecting rod caps without dowel pins or shoulder bolts. If the caps were just flat with no pins, they could potentially "walk" across each other and loosen over time.
 
#17 ·
Qnen:

Bravo on your progress and discovery. Sounds like you have a good grip on the situation.


While you have the heads off, I think I would have them cleaned and inspected for problem valve springs, cracks, etc.

Don
 
#18 ·
.. in looking at the caps and reading thru the Haynes manual, it recommends using new bolts when reinstalling the caps. Problem is it seems the bolts are somehow captive in the caps, ie they don't fall out. Before I try to pull or tap the bolts out of the caps, I wanted to see if I was missing anything. Also, looking on the autozone website for new bearings, they only offer one size. I was under the impression that I would have to do the whole plastigage thing to get the proper bearing clearance. Any advice to the bolts and bearing size would be greatly appreciated.

Have a great Sunday everyone and enjoy the extra hour!!!!
 
#19 ·
Your bearings will only need to be stock sized unless you had the crankshaft ground down by a shop. As for the bolts, they should be able to be pressed out, but I have not messed wit the bottom end on one of these engines before.
 
#20 ·
Thanks for all the help. Parts are all on order. Spent some time today cleaning some of the parts up. Took the throttle plate (actual butterfly valve assy) apart from the upper air plenum/ intake manifold. WOW. See the attached pictures showing the view from the air filter side (clean) vs the upper intake manifold/air plenum side (black). Can a bad PCV valve cause this?
 

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#22 ·
.....so there I am, about ready to start putting in new rod bearings when I notice the timing chain. I touch the chain (about 2-3 inches above the lower sprocket) with a screw driver just to see how tight it is. ............. I'm guessing the 1/2-3/4 inch of free movement is too loose, huh? ...... and I'm guessing that the only way to really inspect the chain is to pull the cover. ....... and yes, I am impressed with how many things they can mount to the timing chain cover. Time for bed, and back at it tomorrow night.
 
#23 ·
Your throttle body looks bad, but I've seen worse. If it's never been cleaned in that 50K, I'd say that's normal for an engine with an EGR valve. This junk they are selling and calling fuel does not help.

And these engines hold 5 quarts of oil with filter, not 4.5 like someone else post. These vans haven't held 4.5 quarts since the 3rd generation.
 
#24 ·
Well, it's all back together. Let it crank for awhile with the plugs out just to get some oil moving around. Put in plugs and fired it up, and it actuallly runs. And the original clacking noise is gone. YEAH!!!!

So to sum it all up, I took damn near everything off that I could while leaving the engine in the vehicle. On the top, I went down to taking the heads off and had them cleaned and check at an auto machine shop. From the bottom, I took off the pan and found some bad rod cap bearings. Replaced the rod bearings, but chose to not even look at the mains. Seemed to me that if they were bad, I would have to drop the engine to replace them and that was more than I could do in my garage. I also pulled the timing cover and replace the timing chain (just for good measure). That crank pulley is a bear to get off. ..... and some of the other components (ps pump and water pump) are damn ackward to get to all the bolts.

Tomorrow we'll check to see if anything dripped overnight (oil or water) and get the body parts back on. Then out for a spin to warm everything up. A follow up oil change and radiator flush, and we'll call it done.

I would like to thank everyone for all their help through this forum. Great resource.
Michael
 
#25 ·
Glad to see you got her done, happy motoring.
 
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