ABS brake bleeding -



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Thread: ABS brake bleeding -

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    ABS brake bleeding -

    Hi everyone. This is regarding a 1999 Plymouth Voyager. I've searched past threads for some answers and I've found most of what I was looking for. But I did something really really stupid this weekend. Thursday evening, my son was driving and lost all brakes. Master cylinder was mostly empty. Found brake fluid all over underside and came across corroded brake lines near the braided stainless steel lines. Not a big deal I thought. I've replaced brake lines and bled brakes lots of times before. So snip snip I go, got my materials started bending, etc. All was going perfectly until I realized that I didn't mark which brake line went to which port on the ABS unit.

    So now what? I started bleeding and getting lots of air. I stopped because I figured it was useless if I had the lines on the wrong ports. Anyone have a diagram of what goes where?

    Part two is - if I lost so much brake fluid when the lines broke, is it even possible to bleed the system without the special ABS scan tool? Will I be stuck going to a shop to complete the bleed?

    Thanks!
    1999 Plymouth Voyager

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    Quote Originally Posted by enikolich View Post
    Anyone have a diagram of what goes where?
    I believe that the tube location legend is stamped right into the HCU mounting bracket. There are six openings in the HCU, two on top and four on the bottom. As you look at the HCU, here is the legend:

    Upper left: Primary (rear) tube from M/C
    Upper right: Secondary (front) tube from M/C

    On the bottom openings, starting from left: RF brake tube, LR, RR, LF.

    Part two is - if I lost so much brake fluid when the lines broke, is it even possible to bleed the system without the special ABS scan tool? Will I be stuck going to a shop to complete the bleed?
    I have never lost all fluid in MC, so I can't say for sure. But according to the shop manual, the base system and the ABS are completely separate, so if you lost fluid in the primary system and ingested air into it, the ABS system should still be free of air. So you should be able to bleed just the base brake system, in the order of LR, RF, RR, LF.
    Leon
    '97 Town & Country LXi

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    Youre awesome! Thank you so much. Exactly what I was looking for. I'll go home and make sure I have them in correct order and then post back my results as far as bleeding goes.

    Ed
    1999 Plymouth Voyager

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    Quote Originally Posted by enikolich View Post
    Youre awesome! Thank you so much. Exactly what I was looking for. I'll go home and make sure I have them in correct order and then post back my results as far as bleeding goes.
    You're welcome, and good luck. Let us know if you get it properly bled without messing with the HCU.
    Leon
    '97 Town & Country LXi

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    Well the bleeding went off just fine. Brakes restored back to where they were! The sequence is what's important here for sure -LR, RF, RR, LF as lyonkster told me to do it. I was going from RR, LR, FR, FL. This is the way I had always done it (under the principal that you start at the one furthest from the master). Anyway, fifteen minutes with the daughter pressing the pedal and I'm back in business!! No messing with the HCU necessary.

    I now feel like a dinosaur because I never would have thought you would need a computer for any portion of a brake job!

    Thanks for the help.
    1999 Plymouth Voyager

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    Great thread. I didn't see it in time to post a timely reply, but everything lyonkster and enikolich said is right on the money. I too have run the MC dry and was in a total panic. Why? Because my Haynes manual (I call it my Heinous manual) specifically says:

    "2 On conventional (non-ABS) brake systems, if air has entered the system due to low fluid level or master cylinder replacement, all four brakes must be bled. Warning: If this has occurred on a model with an Anti-lock Brake System (ABS), or if the lines to the Hydraulic Control Unit or Integrated Control Unit (1998 models) have been disconnected, the vehicle must be towed to a dealer service department or other repair shop equipped with a DRB II scan tool to have the system properly bled."

    Well now, that is completely, totally, utterly BULL - as evidenced by this thread and our hands-on experience. I've run the MC dry on 2 different occasions, and neither of my vehicles have had a DRB scan tool used to bleed the system. Enikolich had every line removed from the HCU and successfully bled his brakes using the conventional method. This, unlike Haynes, is useful, practical information!

    As lyonkster states, the systems are separate and unless you somehow get air in the HCU there's no need to bleed the ABS system as the Haynes (Heinous) book would lead you to believe. Stoopid Haynes! I really, truly hate it when technical manuals lead us astray, or in the Haynes case, outright lie to us. Because of things like this, I've come to use this forum as my first and last reference for just about every repair I do.

    Thanks to all the folks who post! You insights, advice and experience are worth way more than all the Heinous manuals in the world!
    Daasch Blitzco
    -1999 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE. Factory Emerald Green, with aftermarket rust accents ("What rocker panels?!") 192,000 miles (and counting) with the 3.8L and ORIGINAL 41TE. The Spinach-Van!
    -1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager SE, Factory Rosewood paint with ZERO rust, 3.3l, 175,000 miles. The "new" van. It's a baby. The Eggplant-Van!

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    98t&c (10-29-2010)

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    Over and Over

    Hey guys new to the forum here.....
    I had replaced both rear lines due to them rusting open by the braid. I bled the brake the conventional way pump, pump hold release , close pump pump hold. I have had to do this several times. After bleeding them they feel great ... nice and tight. After driving the van they gradually get spongy.... and I bleed them again and they are fine again and then again..... SPONGE!@@#$%^&*. I have bled them at least 5 times now. Of course I didn't know that this van should be bled differently. I always did rr,rl,fr,fl. So I will try the other way and see how it goes. I have no leaks so air can't be getting in somewhere but every time I bleed them I have pockets of air in the rr and almost like a milkshake in the fl. No air in fr or rl. Can there be air trapped int the ABS block? The ABS block had drained totally. Anyone run into the same situation.

    Thanks

    Chris

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