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New Oxygen Sensor, p0135 & p0032, 2005 Touring 3.8L

34K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  5hills 
#1 ·
I was getting an intermittent generic emissions DTC (I forget which code), so I decided to replace oxygen sensors to see if that would clear it up.
Yes, I had already checked vacuum hoses and fuel cap.

I was already planning to replace the plugs and wires, so I figured that I would knock out the oxygen sensors while I was at it. I did the sensors first, so that I would not risk damaging a new plug wires while wrestling with the upstream sensor.

I have seen most of the oxygen sensor related threads on here since doing the job. I should have checked here first. So I guess that the first mistake was getting the Bosch sensors at Autozone. I am not convinced yet that that is the problem...yet. I saw the thread(s) about the change in sensors during production in 2005. My T&C Touring 3.8L, was manufactured April 2005, a month AFTER the dates listed in TSB 05005. So that should not be the issue. I have triple checked that Autozone did hand me the correct sensors.

As the title indicates, I am getting codes for Heater Failure and Heater Circuit High Voltage on the upstream sensor.

With the engine off, I put a DVM across each of the four contacts at the end of the sensor harness and checked resistance. I figured maybe I should see something across the heater contact, or maybe not. Anyway, all combinations of connections across all four wires showed infinite resistance. Maybe that is normal, I do not know.

Instead of checking voltage with the DVM while the sensor was in circuit, I used my handy dandy Autera Dynoscan / OBD II, which includes the oxygen sensor module. with the engine idling, it shows the upstream sensor reporting ~ 1v. If I rev the engine, the voltage drops accordingly and then climbs back up over 1v when I let off the accelerator. FWIW, I also monitored the downstream sensor at the same time (split screen). While it varied some with revving, it stayed in the .6v to .8v neighborhood.
So it *seems* to be working, but I say that not really knowing what the actual voltage range should be.

So at this point, any assistance is appreciated.

Yes the engine is running a little rough, although not significantly. I notice it, since I drive it everyday. Someone else might not notice it. I only notice it when accelerating from a stop.

So far, the mileage meter in the overhead console is still showing 20.6 during my daily commute, even though I did a reset on it a few days ago. That is about where it usually sits.

Thanks


Dean
 
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#2 ·
If you were operating the meter correctly, there should have not been infinite resistance in at least a few of the pin combination's.
 
#3 ·
That is kind of what I was thinking. Maybe I should have seen something across heater contacts, if it has those?
Assuming it is not DC blocked, and not knowing how it is fed in the first place. I guess that is why I ask.
The meter (fluke, with a good battery) was on auto range, so if there is ANY way that some low voltage electrons could have made the round trip, it would have noticed.
 
#4 ·
I would swap back in the old o2 sensor and see if the codes go away, new sensor could be defective. I've had that happen before. Hard to say because you weren't sure what codes you started with.
 
#6 ·
Unfortunately, I did what I normally do not do, I tossed the old ones in the trash. As *luck* would have it, the garbage was picked up the next morning. So I have nothing to compare against, and nothing to swap back to. That is why I was hoping someone would have some specifics regarding what Impedances or voltages I should be seeing.
 
#7 ·
Warpedspeed:

I know it may not help much, but I have used the Bosch sensors in the past with no ill effects.
Also, both the upstream and downstream 02 sensors croaked in our 05 van before 20k miles. What is the build date of your van?

Ours is 08/04.
Don
 
#9 ·
FWIW, I finally got around to getting a replacement upstream sensor (another Bosch at Autozone). This time it indicated the same fail codes right away. The first time, a few weeks ago, the codes did not generate until I was a few miles down the road.

Any Suggestions?
 
#10 ·
Hi warpedspeed,

Any update on your problem? Wifey just announced our CEL is on. Checked the codes doing the key dance and found a P0135. As you did, I've gone through the many threads and have seen the apparent issues with the Bosch replacements. (This seems remarkable that a company like Bosch would have an issue this widespread ... but I guess the same was said about Toyota/acceleration not that long again ... :Wow1: )

Anyhow, if you had any further info on the your issue it may help people like me just starting down the same path....

Thanks!
radman
 
#11 ·
No, unfortunately I have no update and no progress. I need to find another oxygen sensor brand / model, but I do not know which one to try next. Autozone only carries Bosch. So far, I am not finding any definitive answers on the web, other than "dont' use Bosch". This is damn frustrating.
 
#12 ·
You said you read most all the o2 posts on the site.. did you read the one from me that said even with the new dealer part, the dealer had to flash the computer to get it all to work correctly?
 
#13 ·
I think I addressed that in my original post.

"I saw the thread(s) about the change in sensors during production in 2005. My T&C Touring 3.8L, was manufactured April 2005, a month AFTER the dates listed in TSB 05005. "

I had originally printed the TSB and was ready to head to the dealer with it... And then I checked the date on the van. Close, but no Cigar.
 
#15 ·
I would not put it past Chrysler to have the dates of their analysis wrong. That is too close to the time period. I have changed many 02 sensors in my day and the reason I had mine done at the dealer was I read all about these problems people were having with the vans around this time frame. As stated, even my dealer had issues with just changing an O2 sensor. The light came back on on the way home so I went back the next day and they flashed the computer. No problems ever since.

Will be curious to see what the final solution is for your situation.

Fixit
 
#16 ·
Well, it just keeps getting stranger.

I found a Carquest store in the area and they had a Denso sensor in stock, so I bought it and headed back to the house to change sensors again.

So I proceeded to pull the last one and then I was about to put this newer one in, when I noticed that the body of the sensors looked a little different. On went the spectacles and a close examination of the "Bosch" that I had just pulled out, revealed the word Denso on the body of the sensor! So I took a close look at the new shiny "Denso" that I had just purchased at Carquest... And it is a Bosch!?! :confused:

This must be why most of the mechanics that I know are also heavy drinkers!! :nut:
FWIW, all of the previous Autozone "Bosch" sensors where physically identical.

By the time that I got back home, the Carquest was already closed, so what the hay, let's try it.

After putting the new Bosch (masquerading in a Denso package) sensor in and reconnecting the battery. On goes the ignition and ....
Drum roll .....

No CEL! KEWL!!

Being the party pooper that I am, I then connected the analyzer and sure enough, p0135 is pending, but not "stored" yet.
So it took for a ride and about a mile down the road, there was the "ding" and the CEL. Back to the house and the analyzer is showing that the p0135 is not just pending. Of course, this is not surprising.

So, I guess this is progress?!? Just the p0135 now.

I need to call some of the mechanics that I know and drink with them! :)
 
#17 ·
That's too funny on the packaging. How are all the wires and connection on that sensor? Not sure if you say this post on another forum. Unfortunately, the poster never posted his outcome. Maybe you should try a dealer sensor?

http://chryslerforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10503

Fixit
 
#18 ·
Every sensor that I have tried has had a perfect fit connector. The wire connections are the same, in fact, they each have the same colors of wires for each connection. That has been the one area of consistency.

Yes, I fear that the dealer will have to be involved. The dealer that we bought from is now gone. The nearest open dealer is a den of incompetent crooks. I could write a book on all of the horror stories that me and my family have had with that place. We have had friends and family that have worked there. They are all unanimous in their insistence that we should all stay as far away as possible from that place.
 
#19 ·
My Local dealer closed too and I trusted them for the most part. The jury is out on my next closest dealer. I fear they are going the path you speak of. I used to do most of my work until we started having kids. I bought warranties instead and some are still in tact. After my recent experience with my Ram Diesel needing to go back 3 times for an oil filter leak, I am back to doing some of this work again. The kids are old enough where they like to watch/help so I understand wanting to tackle this yourself.
 
#20 ·
Over the years I've changed 3 O2 sensors on these vans. Bought all of them from the dealer. Never had a problem. I had to change one on my daughters Toyota a few years back. Got a new one from her local AutoZone. Two sensors later I bought one from her local Toyota dealer and presto, problem fixed.
 
#21 ·
Well thanks for the updates ... such as they were! :confused: It is a strange tale indeed about the sensor names vs. body packaging!

I've been camping for the past week. No internet and a constant CEL looking at me. We drove about 2000 km ( ~ 1250 miles) and I was monitoring the performance of the van. No change in mileage, starting, idling, etc. that I could detect. When things settle down (domestically), I'll have to get a replacement sensor. For fun, I'll probably get the dealer part. I will update my progress ....

Thanks again warpedspeed (et. al.),
radman
 
#23 ·
Sorry, nothing new. I have been too busy to deal with this. Just driving it with the CEL. Mileage is running about 21 MPG during my commute.
I have scheduled a few days off at the end of the week. I have contacted the dealer for an apointment and I am waiting to hear back.
 
#25 ·
I have had the vehicle back from the dealer's shop now for about four days. so far, so good, no CEL.
After spending much time putting down ALL after market O2 sensors, the service writer did admit that they had to reflash the module to finish the job.

The O2 sensors are covered under my extended warranty, so I still had to pay the deductable. I had some other work that had to be done, about $500.00 worth, also covered under the extended warranty, so it was worth it in the end. But if the O2 had been the only problem, then it would have been an expensive fix.

As an aside, I did have to take the van back in the next day, due to the technician screwing something else up. Admittedly I was not surprised, based on previous experience with that dealer. Thinking about, they have never gotten anything right the first time. We have had six vehicles, Chyslers and Fords in and out of that place over the years, and we have always had to take them back there (or elsewhere! :jpshakehe) after an initial service job.
 
#26 ·
the service writer did admit that they had to reflash the module to finish the job.
warpedspeed,
Glad to hear you finally got the problem fixed. I'm in a similar situation with a P0132 code, a AutoZone Bosch 02 sensor, a Chrysler factory part 02 sensor, and still the CEL persists. I haven't yet taken it to a dealer to have then "reflash the module". I was wondering if you or anyone else knew how or if this can be done without the dealer. Thanks for any help.
 
#27 ·
Warpspeed.. glad you back on the road. I have been trying to say all a long that the only way around this is to have the module flashed. Not sure exactly why yet. I read the TSB well over a year ago and can't remember the details. Not sure if it is only the 05 or 05 and older. I think they have to change the resistance value in the tables of the computers code because the value is now different on the sensors? Unfortunately, the dealer is the only place that can do this that I am aware of.
 
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