Water Pump--Broken Bolts



ChryslerMiniVan.net is the premier Chrysler Minivan Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Water Pump--Broken Bolts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Water Pump--Broken Bolts

    My water pump recently had a catastrophic failure. There was no warning that I'm aware of. My daughter had borrowd the car because her's was in an accident. She left our house, drove no more than a mile to go home, heard a terrible noise, turned around and came back. It sounded like somebody had put a dozen bolts in a paint can and was rolling it. The pump bearings were suddenly gone, and the shaft wobbled. It leaked badly.

    The van is a 1995 Grand Caravan SE with a 3.3 engine. It has a fairly recent, 3 years?, rebuilt transmission.

    The pump came off, once I removed the belt and the tensioner. I'll have to take a look at the tensioner because it has no spring action. I moved it with great difficulty, and it did not spring back.

    The pump came off easily, but two bolts broke in the process. The broken bolts are the bottom one, in the 5-6 o'clock position, and another at about the 11 o'clock position. I think the bottom bolt is critical, because of belt tension in an upward direction. The top bolt is not critical, for the same reason.

    I was fairly easily able to drill the bolt center with a right angle attachment for the drill and a titanium bit.

    The current situation. I'm stuck. My easy out snapped off flush with the surface. The easy out will be very difficult or impossible to drill. It's a small very hard surface in a softer surrounding surface.

    So to my question. What are my options now. We want to save the van. It runs well other than the water pump. What is my next step?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Chrysler Minivan Forums
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Niles Il.
    Posts
    10,106
    Country: Users Country Flag
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 495 Times in 457 Posts


    Really need heat with easy outs..

    How many bolts hold the pump on? I've never done the pump on my engine so I have no idea.

    If there are many bolts, I would leave it be. Put some RTV on the gaskets, lightly spin the other bolts in and let it set up. When it is hard, torque the other bolts down and run it as is. It may also be good to modify the radiator cap to not pressurize the system so it does not force leaks to happen. My van runs no cooling system pressure and is more than happy doing it.

    People may scold me for this half a$$ed response, but since it is not worth the effort to have the bolts extracted, it may be worth it to try some redneck engineering.
    Candy the van. '98 Sport 3.8L 132,200 miles. Used trans at ~96k. Great piece of my life and a fine van.

    '69 GTO drop top
    www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Greif/1410438927

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    Quote Originally Posted by andyg View Post
    Really need heat with easy outs..
    I forgot to mention, I used a heat gun to heat the area surrounding the bolt. I tried to heat the surrounding area without heating the bolt itself. The objective being to get that area to expand while the bolt did not. I got it hot enough to where the PB Blaster sizzled when I sprayed it on. I was beginning to get steam coming out the bottom radiator hose connection on the water pump.

    The new water pump came with a new "O" ring, maybe 3 inch diameter. Do you think I should use the RTV in addition to the "O" rign?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Niles Il.
    Posts
    10,106
    Country: Users Country Flag
    Thanks
    57
    Thanked 495 Times in 457 Posts


    Quote Originally Posted by 4breezes View Post
    I forgot to mention, I used a heat gun to heat the area surrounding the bolt. I tried to heat the surrounding area without heating the bolt itself. The objective being to get that area to expand while the bolt did not. I got it hot enough to where the PB Blaster sizzled when I sprayed it on. I was beginning to get steam coming out the bottom radiator hose connection on the water pump.

    The new water pump came with a new "O" ring, maybe 3 inch diameter. Do you think I should use the RTV in addition to the "O" rign?
    No RTV on the O-ring. I was not aware they didn't have a conventional gasket. I've only done water pumps on cars around the age of 40.

    I just looked online and pictures show that there are only 5 bolts for the pump. Having 2 of them broken may be worse than I thought. My experience has been that there are 10 or more bolts on the pumps. I'm not really sure you should go ahead and try with only 3 in there.
    Candy the van. '98 Sport 3.8L 132,200 miles. Used trans at ~96k. Great piece of my life and a fine van.

    '69 GTO drop top
    www.facebook.com/people/Andy-Greif/1410438927

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    51
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    I learned early on to never use easy outs. They just never worked for me. I always drill the bolt and use a tap to clean the hole. You may still be able to drill the easy out with a cobalt bit, but it may be necessary to put the bit in a jig to keep it from wandering. Make a little jig out of solid steel flat rod from home depot. I think the thickness of the rod is 1/8". Cut it long enough to span the distance between the hole where the easy out is and an open hole. Drill two holes on it, one to bolt into the open hole, the other one to guide the drill bit. For the hole right above the radiator hose, I think you can clamp the end of the rod to keep it from moving at all, then just drill it out. For people who need pictures go to my site http://veritas.selfip.com:8080/show/...ump_cavity.jpg

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ontario, OR
    Posts
    34
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    I was advised by a Dodge mechanic to put a thin layer of RTV on both of the o-ring gaskets for the cross-over pipe on my 3.0 because of potential leakage. Seems to be working fine after 600 miles or so. I don't know if the same recommendation would be made for this engine or not, just thought I'd throw it out there.
    1995 Voyager - 3.0 V6 - 3 speed - 128k (current DD)
    1997 Expresso - 2.0 DOHC - 5 speed - 150k - (project)

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    59
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    You might try using Permatex Ultra Gray RTV on the pump instead or regular blue or black.The Gray sets up a lot tougher than either of the other two.

    You might be able to use a small drill bit to drill into the bolt beside the easy out and work it (the easy out) loose with a small punch or chisel.Then you can start drilling the bolt with larger bits until you can clean the hole with a tap.There are left hand bits for sale that will sometimes bring the broken bolt out as the new hole is being drilled.
    Beware using cobalt drills because they are harder but more brittle and can break easily if bent.
    04 Mustang GT,92 GC SE 3.3,07 T&C 3.8,three Harleys and an airplane.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post


    If a "high end" auto engine rebuilder is nearby, they should have a machine shop and talking to them may help, or maybe they can do it for you. IF NOT

    ===================

    1) First I would get a left handed drill bit (diamond). The left handed bit forces will work in the removal direction for both the EasyOut and bolt. THIS IS CRITICAL.
    2) If the EasyOUt surface is NOT flat and you can get to it I would attempt to grind it flat with an angle grinder. I'd try this on another easyout first in a vice to see how the hardness grinds, but should be OK.
    3) I'd follow NoMoneyNoHunny's idea of predrilling a piece of flat steel with a hole and another hole to bolt the steel in position so the bit doesn't wander -- -- If the bolt broke below the surface of the water pump bolt hole and if there is enough hole to keep the bit from wantering you may be able to use it. My preference is the steel as I recall the water pump housing is aluminum.
    4) Use a center punch to put a dimple in the EasyOut. Again I would try this on another EasyOut in a "Vice" first to see the kind of forces needed to put a dimple.
    5) I would periodically squirt a generous amount of PB and let it sit as long as you can -- couple days -- before I start drilling.
    6) Take the drilling real slow both in speed (if you have a variable) and depth so you don't wander off center..

    7) Lastly a tip. THe next time you remove a bolt that appears stuck, STOP, and then substitute a breaker bar for your ratchet. Instead of pulling onthe breaker bar with your hand, use a rubber, leather, or plastic hammer to give the breaker bar a good strike. This will normally break the bolt loose and IMHO has save many a situation your in.. If you can't get the hammer to the bar, I normally keep some pieces of wood (furring strips work great) around to use so I can position on the end of the breaker bar and also use the hammer. WORKS GREAT.

    Good Luck.
    Last edited by dw8; 12-16-2009 at 08:45 AM.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post


    One other thought since I can't edit above.

    If you can remove the other bolts and then remove the water pump this will just leave the broken bolt / Easy Out protruding. You "may" then be able to use a pair of vice grips to remove the broken EasyOut,-- OR -- better yet get a bolt extraction tool that will grab the outside of the bolt and rachet it out.

    One last thought if drilling is required. Similiar to NoMoneyNoHunny's idea, if the bolt is protuding and you were able to grind it flat, I've used a metal sleeve where the ID of the sleeve is just slightly larger than the OD of the bolt. Naturally you need to prick punch the bolt head first., then slip the sleeve over the bolt. This keeps the bit from accidentally wandering off where you don't want it.

    I've never tried it, but you may also be able to put several sleeves inside eash other, such that the last sleeve will keep the bit centered.

    I'm also sure you recognize that you start off with a small bit and work up in small bit increments.
    You NEVER want to just drill one hole with the final bit size.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    12
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


    All good ideas, but time is running short. We need the Caravan back on the road. I think we will probably put it on a stretcher and take it to a friend's shop, let him work on it. The final answer might very well be a new/wrecking yard timing cover.

    I'll try to attach a picture. The pump is off, so the bolt in question in flush with the surface of the timing cover. We'll see how the picture attachment works. This picture was taken before I completed the drilling and broke the easyout.
    Attached Images

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. 2005 Town and Country 3.8 Water Pump - Motor Mount Bolts
    By L22 in forum 4th. Generation Chrysler Minivans: 2001-2007
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-01-2011, 10:18 AM
  2. Broken distributor cap bolts
    By Infinitrium in forum 2nd Generation Chrysler Minivans: 1991-1995
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-02-2009, 12:34 AM
  3. Broken water pump bolts
    By tempfixit in forum 2nd Generation Chrysler Minivans: 1991-1995
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-11-2009, 07:45 PM
  4. broken water pump bolts 2000 caravan 3.3
    By jfrocker in forum 3rd Generation Chrysler Minivans: 1996-2000
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-27-2007, 12:54 PM
  5. bolts to egr valve gone or broken off
    By drteddc in forum 3rd Generation Chrysler Minivans: 1996-2000
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-17-2007, 06:28 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts