Synthetic oil



ChryslerMiniVan.net is the premier Chrysler Minivan Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Synthetic oil

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7

    Synthetic oil

    The dealer told me the Pacifica required synthetic oil. Is this true? Qwners manual doesn't say this.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Chrysler Minivan Forums
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    TEXAS, USA
    Posts
    4,034
    Your vehicle requires 0-20 oil.

    Try to find a non-synthetic oil of that grade.

    I believe 0-20 oils are fully synthetic or at least synthetic blend.







    2012 Town & Country
    2006 Dodge Grand Caravan. 317,000 + Miles. -SOLD-
    Current Minivans I own.
    LEVY --UNKNOWN MEMBER--

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    16,678
    From an online 2017 Pacifica Owner Manual:
    We recommend you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as MOPAR, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade
    NOTE:
    Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), twelve months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a concern for fleet customers
    The 2017 Dodge Caravan Owner Manual still calls for 5W-20.
    MOPAR SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix or equivalent is recommended for all operating temperatures. This engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle fuel economy.
    NOTE: MOPAR SAE 5W-30 engine oil approved to FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix or equivalent may be used when SAE 5W-20 engine oil meeting MS-6395 is not available.
    NOTE:
    Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), twelve months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a concern for fleet customers.
    Just another extra cost for the Pacifica. 0W-20 can be a synthetic blend as LEVY mentioned: http://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produc...-Motor-Oil.pdf

    Synthetic blend motor oils are fairly common. A popular Honda synthetic blend: https://www.amazon.ca/Genuine-Honda-.../dp/B007P5RFRO Take a look at the label.
    Last edited by Jeepman; 02-11-2017 at 01:46 PM.
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 173,000 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 358,500 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 279,000 kms

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Jeepman For This Useful Post:

    JC1 (02-12-2017)

  6. Remove Advertisements
    Chrysler Minivan Forums
    Advertisements
     

  7. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,168
    The Pacifica owners manual also states:
    Synthetic Engine Oils
    You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed.
    Synthetic engine oils which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used.
    2009 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT (3.8) 200,000+ miles
    2001 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport (3.3) 250,000+ miles
    2003 Dodge Grand Caravan eL (3.8)
    Previous Chrysler Vehicles: 1995 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1993 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1986 Chrysler Lebaron GTS (2.2), 1963 Plymouth Valiant (170ci)

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to georgef For This Useful Post:

    Jeepman (02-12-2017)

  9. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    7
    Thanks for all your input.

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    216
    Personally I believe 0W20 has no business being in this engine and in such a heavy vehicle. Honda, Toyota and Subaru have plenty of oil consumption problems with their engines requiring 0W20 oils and in much smaller vehicles as well. Most 0WXX oils have to use a lot of Viscosity Index Improvers and Pour point depressants in order to classify for the 0W rating. While these additives make the oil more pumpable at extremely low temperatures, they degrade pretty quickly and can cause varnish, which can gum up the rings.

    However, unlike Honda, Toyota and Subaru, Chrysler has a provision that 5w20 or 5w30 can be used in the owner's manual. So unless I were living in Alaska or in an area where -30F temps are the norm during winter, I would use 5w20 or 5w30 oil in the new Pacifica. My personal choice would be 5w30, which is what I use in my GC.

    By the way, the W rating temperatures are as follows and it is plain obvious that anything rated 5WXX will be more than enough for an average winter:

    Cold Cranking
    0W 6200 at -35C(-31F)
    5W 6600 at -30C (-22F)
    10W 7000 at -25C(-13F)
    15W 7000 at -20C (-4F)

    Pumping Viscosity
    0W 60 000 at -40C (-40F)
    5W 60 000 at -35C (-31F)
    10W 60 000 at -30C (-22F)
    15W 60 000 at -25C (-13F)
    Last edited by GCTruckster; 02-15-2017 at 02:18 PM.

    2015 Dodge // Grand Caravan Crew
    2006 Mazda 3 2.0L
    1995 Kawasaki Ninja 500

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to GCTruckster For This Useful Post:

    JC1 (02-15-2017)

  12. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,168
    Quote Originally Posted by GCTruckster View Post
    ...However, unlike Honda, Toyota and Subaru, Chrysler has a provision that 5w20 or 5w30 can be used in the owner's manual...
    That's true for the Caravan and Town & Country but not for the Pacifica.

    The owners manual for the Pacifica only specifies 0W-20 oil.
    2009 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT (3.8) 200,000+ miles
    2001 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport (3.3) 250,000+ miles
    2003 Dodge Grand Caravan eL (3.8)
    Previous Chrysler Vehicles: 1995 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1993 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1986 Chrysler Lebaron GTS (2.2), 1963 Plymouth Valiant (170ci)

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by georgef View Post
    That's true for the Caravan and Town & Country but not for the Pacifica.

    The owners manual for the Pacifica only specifies 0W-20 oil.
    Bummer. In that case I would stick with 0w20 for the warranty period, but change it at 5k intervals. The oil shouldn't brake down on such short change intervals.

    2015 Dodge // Grand Caravan Crew
    2006 Mazda 3 2.0L
    1995 Kawasaki Ninja 500

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    16,678
    Quote Originally Posted by GCTruckster View Post
    Bummer. In that case I would stick with 0w20 for the warranty period, but change it at 5k intervals. The oil shouldn't brake down on such short change intervals.
    Might want to ask ChryslerCares (a member here) if 5W-30 will void the warranty? I think not, it fact it may increase the longevity of the engine over the long haul.

    What does 0W-20 or 5W-30 start out as and what do they return to if the viscosity index additives are depleted? Ever wonder why lawn mower and snowblower engines use to specify a single grade oil, keeping in mind that the oil may never get changed?

    From http://www.lube-media.com/documents/...ROVERSetal.pdf
    These polymers are in the form of a long chain and remain tightly coiled and suspended in the oil at low temperature. As the temperature increases the coil unfolds, volume increases as a result of expansion and the oil gradually becomes thick. This means that thinning effect of the oil is nullified at higher temperature by the addition of VI improvers
    Don't despair, 0W-16 is on its way. From https://passenger.lubrizoladditives3...ar-challenges/
    Low Viscosity SAE 16 Oils Will Require Cutting-edge Additive Technology to Address Wear Challenges

    SAE 16 will serve as a lighter-weight alternative to SAE 20. With kinematic viscosity (KV) limits set at 6.1 — 8.2 mm2/s at 100°C, the main objective behind SAE 16 is to better facilitate fuel efficiency in engines by reducing hydrodynamic friction between moving parts, such as piston rings, bearings and valve trains.

    While it is generally accepted that lower viscosity brings an improvement in fuel economy performance, it can have a negative impact on durability; the protective oil film is less robust, or under the most extreme loading conditions, non-existent. In terms of performance requirements, this translates to a set of standards that will ensure fuel economy is improved via lower viscosity, but durability will not be compromised.
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 173,000 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 358,500 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 279,000 kms

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepman View Post
    What does 0W-20 or 5W-30 start out as and what do they return to if the viscosity index additives are depleted? Ever wonder why lawn mower and snowblower engines use to specify a single grade oil, keeping in mind that the oil may never get changed?
    The VII (viscosity index improvers) don't deplete. It's like the quote you posted says. They form long polymer chains and these chains control how much the oil thickens and thins with temperature. Problem is that during the course of use, the oil is sheared and that shearing action breaks down the polymer chains, which in turn changes the original cold and hot viscosity of the oil. The used oil becomes much thicker when cold and much thinner when at operating temp. when compared to the fresh oil.

    Problem is that there are no set rules for used oil. Manufacturers do their EPA test with fresh oil, not one that has 10k miles on it.
    Technically the API certification doesn't allow the oil to go shear more than one grade up on the cold scale and one grade down on the hot scale, but I do not believe they specify the mileage interval and this shearing out of grade cannot be an absolute and just magically stop, the longer the oil stays in service the more it shears.
    Essentially, oils with less VIIs tend to be more shear stable and there are some excellent 0W20, 0W30 oil with no VIIs or very little of them, but they are boutique oils like Red Line and Amsoil, which is a warranty liability since they oftentimes lack API and manufacturer certifications.

    This brings me to SAE30, non detergent oils for snow blowers, mowers etc. These oil have no VIIs and no detergents, and they are extremely shear stable. That is why these machines don't seem to be affected. Also, these small engines are splash lubricated, not pressure fed by an oil pump, which makes it possible to operate with SAE30 oils in such a wide range of temperatures.

    Unfortunately using non detergent, monograde oils in modern engines (that is pretty much anything made for the last 30 or so years) has more disadvantages than the one advantage (shear stability) they offer. That's not to say that some, living in mild climates, could not get away with it, but at the very least I would pick something with detergents and other additives.

    2015 Dodge // Grand Caravan Crew
    2006 Mazda 3 2.0L
    1995 Kawasaki Ninja 500

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to GCTruckster For This Useful Post:

    Carbuff2 (02-16-2017)

+ Reply to Thread

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts