ABS, ESP and ESP/BAS lights illuminated on dash



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Thread: ABS, ESP and ESP/BAS lights illuminated on dash

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    20


    ABS, ESP and ESP/BAS lights illuminated on dash

    Hi,

    Got a problem or problems with '09 with 4.0L engine over the last 2 weeks. 125k miles.

    The three dashboard lights with the ESP symbol, ABS symbol and "ESP BAS" letters all come on together, which would ordinarily indicate some sort of traction loss or skidding. But it's on dry pavement at normal moderate cruise speed like 30-45 mph and under normal control of steering and traction. i.e., no sliding or traction or emergency braking issue. But it is also coupled with an engine hesitation or stuttering - not really surging, but more like the acceleration or engine power is cut off momentarily each time the three skidding lights illuminate.

    It's done it a couple of times now in the last 4-7 days.

    Separately, after my wife dropped the kids off at school this morning - she had to park and sign them in. When she came back out the van wouldn't re-start. She said she turned the key and it was trying to crank, but not firing off. But she said it didn't seem like it was losing electric power - the lights inside the car didn't dim and the chime stayed on. Nonetheless, she was able to get it started with a jump start off jumper cables (off a nice BMW).

    Lastly - on road trip week last week of December and seemed like there was an occasional groaning or buzzsaw sound coming from engine compartment. Very faint so tough to identify where it was coming from, and only did it at cruise and not when stopped in parking lot. Sounded sort of like tire/road noise when driving on grooved pavement under construction, but it was coming more from in front of the driver's side from the engine compartment rather than from the road. Most pronounced at 45-65 mph ... any faster and the wind noise drowned it out, and the buzzsaw sound went away as slowed down below 45.

    Thoughts? Related or separate issues going on? Sound like alternator dying a slow death?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    And no MILs or P-codes.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    TEXAS, USA
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    3,424


    Not easy to diagnose but:

    Check battery cables (both ends) for corrosion or a loose cable/terminal.

    Check ABS wiring on both front wheels for damage (chunk of ice can damage that wiring).

    And lastly, have you replaced a tire lately? If you installed a different size of tire that will set those lights on.







    2012 Town & Country
    2006 Dodge Grand Caravan. 317,000 + Miles. -SOLD-
    Current Minivans I own.
    LEVY --UNKNOWN MEMBER--

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  6. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Correction: this last time with the stuttering only the ESP symbol (squiggly skidding car) illuminated and not all three like last week. Same symptoms though.

    Battery tested bad, so starting with replacing battery and see if that resolves things. Sort of makes sense that if power is cutting out, or dropping below a minimum threshold, that the computer wouldn't get the req'd signals it needed re: ESP/ABS and could cause those lights to go off. I guess I've seen stranger things cause problems.

    No corrosion on battery cables, including the ground at bottom of transmission.

    Will also look at ABS wiring. But no new tires lately.

    Hope it's just the bad battery, but I suspect I have two unrelated issues going on.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    20


    I should add that it did throw a MIL after jump-starting the dead battery. P0562 under voltage low battery charge. That happens every time there's a dead battery though and doesn't indicate whether it's a bad battery or bad alternator.


    Also, is there a TSB for reconnecting a battery with VES? Something about removing a fuse before reconnecting battery. Sound familiar?

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,101


    Quote Originally Posted by Zambee500 View Post
    ...Also, is there a TSB for reconnecting a battery with VES? Something about removing a fuse before reconnecting battery. Sound familiar?
    Yes.

    You should remove the radio fuse before disconnecting the battery. There is a bulletin for the 2008 and 2009 models concerning the REN and REZ MyGig radios being damaged after the battery is disconnected.

    From bulletin number: 08-003-09

    MyGig REN or REZ Radio Inoperative After Battery Disconnect.

    When performing repairs that require battery cable removal, the feed fuse for the radio (30amp, for fuse location please consult DealerConnect, TechConnect, or Fuse Cover) must be removed prior to disconnecting or reconnecting the battery. Disconnecting and Reconnecting the battery can cause electrical spikes that may damage the MyGig - REN or REZ radio. Removal of the fuse will prevent this from occurring.
    See this post: Online TSB's for information on viewing service bulletins for your vehicle. Even though the TSB is for 2008-2009 model years, it only shows up on that site under the 2008 model year.
    2009 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT (3.8) 200,000+ miles
    2001 Dodge Grand Caravan Sport (3.3) 250,000+ miles
    2003 Dodge Grand Caravan eL (3.8)
    Previous Chrysler Vehicles: 1995 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1993 Dodge Caravan (3.0), 1986 Chrysler Lebaron GTS (2.2), 1963 Plymouth Valiant (170ci)

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    20


    Quote Originally Posted by georgef View Post
    See this post: Online TSB's for information on viewing service bulletins for your vehicle. Even though the TSB is for 2008-2009 model years, it only shows up on that site under the 2008 model year.
    Thanks for that. Bookmarked.

    So the stumbling continues after new battery. ABS wiring looks good. Mechanic seemed to think a spark plug type issue, but had plugs replaced with NGK platinums 18 mos / 25k miles ago when I had the timing belt/water pump done. And it ran fine up until 2-3 weeks ago. They also thought it could be a fueling issue and want to run BG fuel system cleaner.

    So I noticed the M38 fuse is ESP, ABS and fuel pump. Could this be a fuel relay or TIPM issue? I also have the ESP and ABS lights going off. This doesn't seem like the 'normal' TIPM issues or problems I've seen described in other threads, but is this a possibility? Drained batteries. I also had the driver's side windshield wiper replaced about 8 mos. / 12k miles ago after it went kaput. It's been fine ever since replaced, but isn't that a commonly misdiagnosed fuel relay or TIPM issue? Or am I going down the wrong rabbit hole with this thought?

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Auburn Hills, MI
    Posts
    827


    Quote Originally Posted by Zambee500 View Post
    Hi,

    Got a problem or problems with '09 with 4.0L engine over the last 2 weeks. 125k miles.

    The three dashboard lights with the ESP symbol, ABS symbol and "ESP BAS" letters all come on together, which would ordinarily indicate some sort of traction loss or skidding. But it's on dry pavement at normal moderate cruise speed like 30-45 mph and under normal control of steering and traction. i.e., no sliding or traction or emergency braking issue. But it is also coupled with an engine hesitation or stuttering - not really surging, but more like the acceleration or engine power is cut off momentarily each time the three skidding lights illuminate.

    It's done it a couple of times now in the last 4-7 days.

    Separately, after my wife dropped the kids off at school this morning - she had to park and sign them in. When she came back out the van wouldn't re-start. She said she turned the key and it was trying to crank, but not firing off. But she said it didn't seem like it was losing electric power - the lights inside the car didn't dim and the chime stayed on. Nonetheless, she was able to get it started with a jump start off jumper cables (off a nice BMW).

    Lastly - on road trip week last week of December and seemed like there was an occasional groaning or buzzsaw sound coming from engine compartment. Very faint so tough to identify where it was coming from, and only did it at cruise and not when stopped in parking lot. Sounded sort of like tire/road noise when driving on grooved pavement under construction, but it was coming more from in front of the driver's side from the engine compartment rather than from the road. Most pronounced at 45-65 mph ... any faster and the wind noise drowned it out, and the buzzsaw sound went away as slowed down below 45.

    Thoughts? Related or separate issues going on? Sound like alternator dying a slow death?
    Hi Zambee500,

    If you decide to visit your local dealership I'd be happy to follow up with them for you if needed. Just PM our page with your VIN and let me know!

    Andrea
    Chrysler Social Care Specialist

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    20


    Status non-update.

    The independent mechanic had it yesterday and repeatedly could duplicate issue. He thinks it's ABS related but he couldn't pull any DTCs - either b/c there are none stored or his system cannot read it (but it can usually read Chrysler). He suspects the computer thinks the wheels are spinning causing ESP to activate applying brakes and cutting engine power, if only for a microsecond causing the engine to feel like it's stuttering. On visual inspection the wheel sensors look good though, so he recommended taking it to dealership for advanced diagnostics. So I took van home and scheduled dealership appt. this morning.

    While at home, I turned the steering wheel all the way left, then all the way right with engine running. Listening for clicking/popping in steering column for clockspring, b/c apparently steering angle sensor can cause these exact symptoms. All quiet though and seems normal.

    Drove to dealership this morning 8 miles (1 of which is on hwy) and engine was smooth almost the entire way. Hardly detectable stutter coming off the end of exit ramp turning left onto surface street, and then one more time, but not enough to light up any of the dashboard lights. Again, the stutters were hardly detectable if not looking for it, and much less severe or noticeable than how was up until last night.

    Dealership has had van all day and cannot duplicate problem and no DTCs stored other than the low voltage MIL code from the bad battery earlier in the week (separate issue). Lol. Chasing gremlins!!! Dealership service adviser said tech would drive it another time or two this afternoon to see if they can duplicate, and will also carefully inspect all wheel speed sensor wires and connectors. Otherwise, I pick it up tonight and drive it until problem recurs and then bring it back. I guess.

    Seems like the likely culprits are ABS wheel speed sensor, ABS control module, or steering angle sensor. I might have re-seated a bad positioned wheel sensor when I turned the steering wheel back and forth in the driveway.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Zambee500; 01-11-2017 at 03:37 PM.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    61


    You might want to read through this thread:

    http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...ACTION-CONTROL

    It was the ABS module for a few of us that have gone through this already.

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