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Transmission cooler leak - does it really require $1000 repair?

86K views 65 replies 27 participants last post by  StephenVA 
#1 ·
Hi all - I've posted on only a couple of threads before but have gotten really great advice on repairs that I was able to do myself. Thanks again for all that advice.

Here's a new problem. My 2005 T&C with 81,000 miles has been running fine but for the past several weeks, the transmission won't shift from reverse into drive when first started in the morning. The shift lever does not appear to have a linkage problem - it goes into reverse just fine; but when I back out of my 30-foot driveway and shift into drive, the transmission seems to slip into neutral. A reliable way to overcome this seems to be to rev the accelerator gently a few times, and the transmission will shift when the revs get high enough - at least that's the way it seems to me. It's happened only about 7 times in the past 4 weeks, but I've been concerned. I'm not sure, but there may also be a little rough shifting at speeds of about 30 to 35 or 40 mph. There has been no check engine light. There has been no obvious stain of transmission leakage on our driveway (although we do have a gravel driveway and it's hard to tell). The fluid has been a little low in the transmission, but not a huge amount low.

We are leaving on a driving vacation in just a matter of days, so I had no choice but to take the van to the dealer for repairs, even though I'm not excited about that prospect. After looking at it for several hours, they called and said the problem was caused by a leak in the transmission cooler, and that because of the way the cooler is intermingled with the AC, there was "contamination of the AC coolant" as well. They said there was no apparent damage to the transmission itself, but that it was serious and needed to be dealt with soon or it would start causing damage. The dealer said they were going to have to take off the front end of the van, remove the radiator to get to the cooler, and disconnect the AC as well. They will need to replace the transmission cooler, flush and refill the transmission, flush and refill the AC, and then reassemble the radiator and front end of the van. Total cost - $1080.00.

As I said, we're scheduled to leave in just a few days on vacation, so we had to say OK to the repair. But it sounds fishy to me. Does anyone have advice on what might be going on here? Does this sound reasonable? Was there an alternate if we'd had more time to investigate it or get a second opinion? Obviously, it won't help us, but maybe someone else is having this same problem and the answer might save them the amount of money we're having to pay.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
 
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#3 · (Edited)
That sounds awful expensive to me!
The A/C "intermingled" with the tranny?????

Here's the fix I would have done.

Find the leak in the cooler.
Clean the spot with electrical contact cleaner.
Fix the leak with JB Weld
Pressure test the repair with soap bubbles.
Put everything back together.
Add fluid until the tranny's full.

The cost would have been less than $20.

Although the JB Weld fix might sound kinda' shaky to some,I've used it on quite a few repairs.Unless it's subjected to very high temperatures you can consider it permanent.

I know it's of little use to you now but post here before you take things to a shop.They are there to make money and we aren't.
 
#4 ·
BTW, it's not AC intermingled with the transmission fluid - rather the *engine* cooling system (antifreeze) intermingling with the transmission fluid.

They are correct that getting antifreeze in your transmission fluid can cause a lot of damage. This is definitely a repair you want to have done *right*.

The price they quoted you is a bit high (maybe you have the heavy duty cooling option?), but it can take a lot of flushing to get the antifreeze totally out of the transmission. There have been other reports here of this particular problem happening.

- G
 
#6 ·
I went out and looked at my 07 and it does seem that the cooler lines dissappear into a space between the evaporator and the radiator,so the cooler just might be inside the radiator.If that's the case then a new radiator is the only way to fix the leak unless you can find a radiator repair shop that can press the old ends back onto the repaired core.
I still think someone is taking the long way around the repair though.

Changing over to an external cooler is the best way to fix the problem BUT be sure to plug the fittings going into the radiator or they will leak engine coolant if there's a leak.An external cooler is also the very best thing you can do for an automatic transmission.Heat kills more tranny's than anything but winding the engine and dumping it into drive.

http://www.allpar.com/
 
#7 ·
As I reread this post, it occurred to me, I have an 05 TC w/ 3.8 and there is no way that the coolant and the transmission fluid can mix, as far as I can tell. The Front cooler has the tranny, the top couple of tubes, and the AC condenser, the bottom tubes, on the same unit, but since both are pressurized and go in through different inlets and have no common tubing, I can't imagine a scenario where AC and Tranny fluid or Tranny and Coolant could mix. These coolers are not in the radiator, unless you have some kind of different system. Follow the pipes out of the tranny and up the right side (facing the engine) of the Radiator/cooler assembly. Does it go into a separate cooler on the front of the coolant radiator? (two radiators) Or does it go into the ONE coolant radiator. That will tell you if this kind of cross contamination is possible.
The kind of slipping you are describing is very typical of worn out transmission fluid. That is always the first and cheapest thing to check. Change the fluid and filter (see posts) and replace the form a gasket with a rubber gasket from Napa. Then drop and change the fluid again and a third time after a hundred miles or so between. You will effectively get the same results as most flushes without the risks. Use the ATF4. See if that doesn't fix it if you have never had the fluid changed. You may be operating under extreme conditions (doesn't take much) and that is suggested to change at 60k.
Good luck
 
#8 ·
first your ac has nothing to do with your trans in any way shape or form.

There has been many cases of the trans cooler in the radiator failing. it's easy to tell. remove radiator cap and if you see transmission fluid in the coolant. since oil floats on water, it will show up at the radiator cap. if this is not apparent then skip all this discussion.

It is very common for a seal failure to occur on causing your problem. I've rebuilt a lot of transmissions with this exact symptom (always start with verifying fluid level, correct and clean filter). if these are ok, then it's internal trans time.
 
#9 ·
Say dmtstudio, How do you check your tranny fluid? Do you do it with the engine running or shut off? Where on the dipstick is it showing, in reference to the markings?
 
#10 ·
The transmission cooler is in the lower part of the AC condensor. Unusual but true on 2005 and newer Gen 4 vans.
Hank
 
#12 ·
Not on my 2005 lines connect direct no second cooler in the circuit. Maybe it does with the towing package.
Hank
 
#13 ·
Do you think it has something to do with the 3.3 and the 3.8? I have a 3.8 without the towing package, and it has the tranny and AC cooler up front ahead of the radiator. One way to tell for sure is to follow the tranny lines from the tranny to your cooler, if it of the two cooler type, they will attach to the top couple of tubes on the drivers side of the cooler and the tubes run lengthways. Then follow the AC high pressure lines to the condeneser, if they go to the lower part of the same unit that the tranny cooler is in, then you have the two cooler system. If the tubes run into the same "cooler" as the coolant, then you have an old fashioned cooler/radiator and you could get cross contamination. And as I would recommend, bypass the radiator cooler with a high quality one with large tubes at your earliest convenience. It is easy and great insurance.
 
#14 ·
Hi all....

I'll try to address your questions. First, I haven't heard back from the dealer yet - he was supposed to be finished Friday but wasn't (of course), so I'm expecting it to be done today. Oh joy, oh rapture.... Say goodbye to the bank account...

I'm pretty sure this van is one without the tow package (although I admit I'm not entirely sure - how can I tell for sure?) But I know it IS the 3.8 engine. We bought the van used a year and a half ago and I've loved it and haven't had any major problems with it until now (and I'm not convinced this was a "major" problem except that it could have grown into something worse. I'm just concerned that maybe the fix was actually simpler and cheaper than the dealer is making it out to be.

The service manager at the dealer had told me that the Trans cooler fluid was leaking into the AC system, not the engine coolant system. (Did he misspeak? He said he was just relating what his men in the shop had told him - he may have heard them wrong.) I remember asking him how it could leak into the AC when that was a closed system, and he said something about the transmission cooler runs through the other system - I thought he said AC compressor - thereby causing the contamination.

The way it sounds to me, from what you all are telling me, is that it may actually be the engine coolant system and not the AC system that needed flushing and refilling. Or could it be both?

Can anyone verify to me (for certain) that the AC system itself does NOT have anything to do with the transmission? That there is no chance of intermingling the AC in any way with the transmission fluid? I don't want to go back to the dealer and have him tell me that I have to pay for transmission repair, radiator flush and fill, AND and AC flush and fill. Unless all THREE systems are intermingled in this van (which seems to be incredibly bad design, but is certainly possible), I would question any repair that was trying to make me pay for all three.

Thanks again for the advice - I'll keep checking back.
 
#15 ·
...he said something about the transmission cooler runs through the other system - I thought he said AC compressor - thereby causing the contamination.
Correction - he said condenser, not compressor. Sorry about that!
 
#16 ·
It sounds like you need a new AC condensor and have the ac cleaned and recharged and the Transmission fluid flushed and replaced. The AC condensor has the transmission cooler built into the bottom of it. I am supprised that the one could leak into the other though. If your AC still works fine I would be inclined to install an aftermarket trans cooler and leave the condensor alone and save some money.
Hank
 
#17 ·
Thanks.... it sounded to me that what they wanted to do was exactly that... to replace the trans cooler (new or aftermarket, they didn't say) and leave the condenser alone... but that they had to remove the radiator and front end of the van in order to do it. Does that sound about right?

As for saving money, if I'd had more time I would have done more research for certain... since there was no sign of a visible leak on the driveway especially.

Oh - someone earlier had asked how I checked the transmission fluid. I have the engine on, pull out the dipstick, wipe it off, then test the dipstick again. If the fluid is near the top of the hatch marks where it says "full" I feel like I'm OK. Is that the correct method?

Still waiting to hear from the dealer - about to call to ask about schedule for finishing.
 
#18 ·
engine MUST be running to check fluid level. Just verifying that's what you are doing because you didn't mention your methods in the above description

You are really going to be taken to the cleaners price wise. A radiator shop would have been more affordable. but that's hindsight.

basically, the tech needs to remove a lot of the front end to do the repair. That's VERY labor intensive. I charge $50/hr in my shop and your job would take no less than 5hrs, toss in parts and materials and it adds up quickly.

whether you have towing package or not is irrelevant. I have not yet seen a 1996 and newer van w/o an additional trans cooler. Tow packages just have a much larger version.

The cheapest way to have fixed your problem would have been to bypass the original cooler and install an aftermarket cooler.
 
#19 ·
I had a leaky trans cooler a year ago. I provided bottles of ATF+4 and had a shop (not a Chrysler dealer) replace the trans cooler and hoses, and top it off. It was less than $500, IIRC, and did not have a problem after that.

If there was intermingling of fluids, there may be a need to drain and refill, but I would never recommend a flush.
 
#20 ·
The A/C and Transmisson do share a cooler, but are in no way interconnected. As said before, it is not possible for them to mix.
Something does not sound right. If there is a leak in the transmission cooler, they would have to replace the condensor also, which would increase the price, since they would have to remove all the R-134, replace the dryer and condensor, evacuate the system and refill with R-134.
The tranny lines are really simple, just take them off the old one and put them on the new one, add fluid and your good (or do a fluid change).
The front end is not hard to take apart (grill, support and a few other parts). For a radiator change, it took me about 45 minutes to get apart, and I had no idea what I was doing, put it together in 15.
 
#21 ·
After reflection, if you have a leak in the transmission oil cooler, and your ac is working fine, the simplest thing to do is to bypass the one in the combination ac/tranny cooler and hook it up to an auxiliary cooler. Just bypass the one in the car. The simplest way, and reversible, is to cut the rubber part of the present hoses in an accessible place and put a piece of metal tubing as a juncture to the new rubber hose, . If you have to replace the ac side later, you can hook back up to the original style cooler if you save your quick connect hose end and tubing. You will have to remove the grill to do this, but as the previous poster said, it sounds more difficult than it is. That way you won't have to touch your AC at all. Saves a ton. Get the biggest aux. cooler with round tubes that you can get and you will have a cooler better than the one that came on it.
 
#22 ·
Hi all - here's the outcome of this particular repair. I'm quoting the original problem below:

The transmission won't shift from reverse into drive when first started in the morning. The shift lever does not appear to have a linkage problem - it goes into reverse just fine; but when I back out of my 30-foot driveway and shift into drive, the transmission seems to slip into neutral. A reliable way to overcome this seems to be to rev the accelerator gently a few times, and the transmission will shift when the revs get high enough - at least that's the way it seems to me. It's happened only about 7 times in the past 4 weeks, but I've been concerned. I'm not sure, but there may also be a little rough shifting at speeds of about 30 to 35 or 40 mph. There has been no check engine light. There has been no obvious stain of transmission leakage on our driveway (although we do have a gravel driveway and it's hard to tell). The fluid has been a little low in the transmission, but not a huge amount low.
We were quoted a cost of $1080.00 by the dealer repair shop, which was the only place we could get the van before leaving on vacation. They said there was a transmission fluid leak in the area of the AC condenser, where the transmission lines share the same space. They said I would have to have the "front end" of the van taken out, including (I thought he said) the radiator, AC condenser, and tranny cooler.

Here's what actually came out on the bill. Someone more learned than me can explain what they actually did! I'll use the same abbreviations they used:

Installed: Cooler: Condenser and TRA68059 1@337.00
Installed: Fltr Pkg: Transmission oil 1@10.20
Installed Fluid: Automatic Transmission 8@7.42
Installed: Sealer: RTV 1@5.50
Kit: LOF 15.95
Installed: 5W30 Included
Installed: Filter: Engine oil Included
Removed and installed transmission cooler
Serviced Transmission, Quicklearned Transmission
LOF, Test drove. All OK at this time.
Evaced and Recharged AC System
Subtotal: Labor 585.00, Parts 428.01 Total: 1013.01
Including all taxes and shop supplies, grand total was 1094.00

I don't see anything on there about removing the radiator or the van's front end, nor about flushing and refilling the engine coolant. So I'm guessing they didn't need to do that?

The van had driven fine before the repair except for the glitch in shifting from reverse to forward low in the morning. That glitch is gone. Hard to tell if the slightly rough shifting at mid-speeds of 30-40 mph is gone since it only happened now and then anyway. The AC had been working fine before is still working fine.

I will keep an eye and ear open for any continued problems. I am still a bit skeptical about the repair itself, and still wondering if there would have been an easier way to handle it, if we'd had more time.

But for the moment, I will try my best to not think about it and enjoy a week's vacation! :)

Thanks all!
 
#23 ·
Looks like they did what I said.
To remove the condenser/cooler, you do have to remove the radiator, so that is part of the "Installed: Cooler: Condenser and TRA68059" and "Removed and installed transmission cooler".

They drained the tranny and changed the filter. They did an oil and filter change (with the wrong oil BTW, should be 5w-20).

Sounds like they did not charge you anything extra and did what was needed. Just paid more than you should have by going to a dealer. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do though.

Have a nice vacation.
 
#24 ·
Great thread. I wanted to ask something similiar instead of starting a new thread, as I have 2005 Grand Caravan w/3.8. I noticed quite a bit of fluid when I changed the water pump/serpentine belt/tensioner last weekend on the passenger side, bottom/front of the engine compartment. Underneath where the radiator hose is at on that side. It was diagnosed as a Trans Cooler leak by my shop and quoted at $214.71 for the part, #1K600396/AC Condenser w/Trans Cooler, $120 labor. AC service is an additional $100. Is this a common problem? I have a buddy who is an excellent mechanic. Is this something we can tackle on our own? How serious of a problem is it?
 
#25 ·
That is a really good price for the fix in my opinion. Since it involves service to the A/C system I would not tackle that repair yourself unless you are a trained refrigeration mechanic and have the correct tools. I noticed that ATF is not included in that quote - ATF+4 is expensive fluid and it is imperative that the correct fluid is used. Make sure they are using ATF+4 and expect to pay ~$8-12/L for up to 8-9L of it as part of the repair. Might as well drop the transmission pan and replace the filter at the same time.
 
#27 ·
Ongoing, and pointless, debate. In the US they spec 5w20 to meet fleet mileage/emissions standards; the marginally thinner oil gets a tiny, tiny bit better mileage, possibly at the expense of less margin of safety and possibly a little more oil getting past the valve guides. Everywhere else, the same engine uses 5w30 just fine.
 
#29 ·
This thread was extremely useful to me. I have the exact same issue with my 2005 Grand Caravan, including the occasional issue of shifting into drive in the morning. I started to embark on a tangent (replacing the solenoid), before I found this thread. As it turns out, I can see that the condenser is leaking from the front of the car, looking through the slats in the grill. The unit is all wet on the outside with fluid in only one area.

I do think the service manager at the dealer that the original poster used was mistaken, when he suggested that there was "cross contamination" between the AC and tranny, or the antifreeze and tranny. But I suppose it is possible, if the separate tubes in the unit for the AC and tranny fluid were BOTH leaking at the same time.

I am going to get some estimates for replacing the part. I am not comfortable doing the job myself, particularly since it requires AC work.

The concern I have regarding suggestions that this part be "bypassed" with a separate transmission cooler has to do with space. Where would you put an additional cooler? I don't think there is enough available space in front of the radiator for an additional cooler. The condenser/tranny cooler is about the size of the radiator, and it pretty much takes up all the available space between the radiator and the front bumper.

It is true that the AC works fine, and theoretically the idea of putting in a separate tranny cooler seems logical. But I don't think there is space for one.

I don't want to suggest an option to the shop that isn't feasible. I am leaning toward just replacing the leaky cooler/condenser. Thoughts?

PS - I sure am hoping they don't produce an estimate as high as $1,000 for parts and labor. The aftermarket part on Amazon is only $75. The OEM Chrysler part is only $195.
 
#31 ·
This thread was extremely useful to me. I have the exact same issue with my 2005 Grand Caravan, including the occasional issue of shifting into drive in the morning. I started to embark on a tangent (replacing the solenoid), before I found this thread. As it turns out, I can see that the condenser is leaking from the front of the car, looking through the slats in the grill. The unit is all wet on the outside with fluid in only one area.

I do think the service manager at the dealer that the original poster used was mistaken, when he suggested that there was "cross contamination" between the AC and tranny, or the antifreeze and tranny. But I suppose it is possible, if the separate tubes in the unit for the AC and tranny fluid were BOTH leaking at the same time.

I am going to get some estimates for replacing the part. I am not comfortable doing the job myself, particularly since it requires AC work.

The concern I have regarding suggestions that this part be "bypassed" with a separate transmission cooler has to do with space. Where would you put an additional cooler? I don't think there is enough available space in front of the radiator for an additional cooler. The condenser/tranny cooler is about the size of the radiator, and it pretty much takes up all the available space between the radiator and the front bumper.

It is true that the AC works fine, and theoretically the idea of putting in a separate tranny cooler seems logical. But I don't think there is space for one.

I don't want to suggest an option to the shop that isn't feasible. I am leaning toward just replacing the leaky cooler/condenser. Thoughts?
Welcome to the fourm!
 
#30 ·
You have confirmed the tranny leak by verifying there is a small amount of fluid being lost, correct? Sounds like you have the DIY ability to do everything except the A/C. If so, one possibility is to find out what an A/C shop would charge for evacuating the system (first), and then recharging after you've completed all of the work. Nothing particularly difficult, just time consuming (hence the big tab). If you went this route, you might want to also consider replacing the rad, if it hasn't already been swapped out.
 
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