You're IAT, you're OAT and you don't give a HOAT - Zerex G-05 FAQs



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Thread: You're IAT, you're OAT and you don't give a HOAT - Zerex G-05 FAQs

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    You're IAT, you're OAT and you don't give a HOAT - Zerex G-05 FAQs

    Similar information was posted (by me) on another Thread, sort of hidden among other discussions. This item (antifreeze, that is) deserves more exposure (my perspective).
    Two items: (1) Antifreeze, what's the ins and outs (IATs, OATs and HOATs)? (2) What about Zerex G-05 don't I know?

    Item 1: This information is from a Turbo Diesel Register site regarding Dodge Trucks @ http://www.turbodieselregister.com/t...ntifreeze.html and contains very interesting Q/As on antifreeze:
    Q6: Since 1989 the coolant type listed is ethylene glycol. How does ethylene glycol (EG) compare with propylene glycol (PG)?

    A6: Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are clear liquids used in antifreeze and deicing solutions. Both are clear, colorless, slightly syrupy liquids at room temperature. Ethylene glycol is odorless, but has a sweet taste. Propylene glycol is practically odorless and tasteless.

    Ethylene glycol is toxic. Eating or drinking ethylene glycol can result in death, while small amounts can result in nausea, convulsions, slurred speech, disorientation, and heart and kidney problems. Ethylene glycol affects the body’s chemistry by increasing the amount of acid, resulting in metabolic problems. Similar to ethylene glycol, propylene glycol increases the amount of acid in the body. However, larger amounts of propylene glycol are needed to cause this effect.(1)

    Q7: It seems that PG would be, literally, a safer product to use. Why is it not widely accepted?

    A7: Ethylene glycol (EG) has been in use since the 50s. Thepropylene glycol (PG) solutions were introduced in the early 70s. They were initially marketed as non-toxic. There was an industry uproar and court action forced the manufacturers of propylene-based antifreezes to relabel their products as low-toxicity. In my discussions with Dave Embaugh at Valvoline/Zerex, I asked questions about these two glycol coolants. There is a 20-25% price premium for the propylene-based coolants. With the price premium for PG, it is a given that all new vehicles come from the factory with the less expensive ethylene glycol-based antifreeze. In the aftermarket, the EG fluids have a market share of 95%; the PG fluids have the remaining 5%. Embaugh notes that the two types of coolants should not be mixed. PG maker Sierra Antifreeze’s web site recommends cooling system flush before switching to their product.

    Q8: Okay, the Chrysler’s recommendation up to year 2002 says ethylene glycol. Isn’t that the traditional “green stuff” that has been around for years?

    A8: Yes, just be sure to use a low-silicate antifreeze per ASTM D-4985/GM6038M and ASTM D-3306.

    Q9: Why all of the fuss over low silicates?

    A9: The good old green stuff is known as inorganic additive technology (IAT). The IAT coolants have been around for generations. They contain silicates that form a protective barrier on everything in the cooling system, even rubber hoses.

    Silicates plate-out quickly on metal engine parts; thus the silicates in a coolant solution can drop to less than 20 percent of the starting level in less than 10,000 miles. Another problem with silicates is that, under certain conditions, they can drop out of the solution and form minute deposits.

    If this occurs between the shaft and seal of your water pump, the resulting abrasion will eventually cause a leak. In a cooling system that turns off coolant flow to the heater core when the heater is not in use, silicates can form a gummy deposit that, over the course of a summer season, might clog the core tubes.

    So why even use silicates? Because they’re really good at what they do, especially in iron block/aluminum head engines. That’s why some manufacturers still specify using coolants with silicate corrosion inhibitors.(2)

    Q10: So I understand that the green stuff (an ethylene glycol, EG, IAT, silicate formula) antifreezes need more frequent servicing as they plate-out as they provide a protective barrier to corrosion. How about Chrysler’s recommendation for the ’03-’08 cooling systems of a hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT) that is good for 5years/100,000 miles? What is HOAT?

    A10: While there are some minor variations, there are three basic types of coolant available today: inorganic additive technology (IAT– typically dyed green), organic additive technology (OAT – typically dyed orange), and hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT – typically dyed yellow). To some extent, each will work in any cooling system, but each has been developed to meet car manufacturers’ specific needs for warranty and/or maintenance intervals. Filling a vehicle that was designed for one type of coolant with another type can sometimes cause problems, and if you mix-and-match coolants the same corrosion protection as the initial factory fill shouldn’t be expected.(2)

    To understand Chrysler’s recommendation of hybrid organic additive technology (HOAT), one must first understand the silicate-free OAT antifreeze. The newer OAT coolants work differently than the older silicate, ethylene glycol, IAT coolants (the green stuff). Aluminum and ferrous metals form a surface-layer of corrosion in the presence of moisture, even the little bit of moisture in the air. OAT coolants anneal this metal-oxide layer into a thin surface coating that protects against further corrosion. Inherent with their design, the OAT coolants last longer than the old green-stuff IAT coolants. Regardless, with either type of inhibitor, there must be enough in the coolant solution to occasionally re-establish the barrier as needed.

    It took almost 20 years of OAT development to make a coolant that would effectively protect against corrosion without using silicates at all.

    As a bridge between OAT and IAT there are the hybrid coolants (HOAT) that use both silicate and organic acid corrosion inhibitors. HOAT type coolants are the factory fill for many OEM vehicles.2 Your ’03-’08 Turbo Diesel uses HOAT.

    Q11: How much of the coolant is actually additives?

    A11: With all of the discussion about IAT, OAT and HOAT, you’ll be surprised to know that the corrosion protection percentage of the mixture (matters not if it is EG or PG) is usually less than 4%, meaning the true “antifreeze” or glycol portion is 96%.

    Q12: Is there a one-size-fits all coolant?

    A12: To quote Dr. Paul Fritz, senior coolants technologist for ChevronTexaco Products Co., “Nothing bad will happen” when two brand-name coolants with different corrosion inhibitor technologies are mixed. By this he means that no sludge will form, there will be no damaging chemical reactions and the coolant will still carry heat
    and protect against freezing.

    However, when adding an IAT to an OAT system, the recommended coolant change interval will degrade to that of the shorter-life coolant. Typically, when the mixture stays below 25 percent new coolant on top of 75 percent of the original coolant, the corrosion protection performance will remain that of the original coolant. But as the mix of coolant technologies deepens—that is, if a cooling system has a slow leak and it’s continually topped off with a type of coolant that’s different from what is already in there—eventually the original corrosion inhibitor will be replaced by the new corrosion inhibitor. This will determine the resulting mixture’s overall performance. If someone continues to top off a five-year coolant with a two-year coolant, the resulting coolant mixture should now be changed every two years.

    But you should not mix-and-match. According to Dr. David Turcotte of Valvoline Co., cooling systems are mechanically designed to work with specific types of coolant.

    Filling a system with the wrong coolant could cause problems. In a 300-hour test of OAT coolant in a Ford engine designed for HOAT coolant, the water pump impellor and backing plate were seriously damaged by cavitation corrosion.

    Turcotte and Fritz both said that it’s not possible to have one product that meets the coolant requirements of all the different automakers. Because some OEMs require silicate-free coolant and others mandate the presence of silicate, “one size does not fit all.”2

    Q13: What coolant should I use?

    A13: Looks like we’ve done a complete 360° walk around the block (cylinder block, that is). Please see the reprinted table that Andy Redmond provided in Issue 54. The short answer: Chrysler specification MSS-9769, HOAT coolant which is backward compatible to all years of the Turbo Diesel. That’s right, use the yellow stuff after you drain the green stuff. And, thankfully we do not have to be concerned with cavitation erosion.
    Item 2: These FAQs are from a Zerex G-05 site @ http://www.englefieldoil.com/PDF/ZerexG-05QAs.pdf
    Frequently asked questions regarding Zerex G-05®
    - What is unique about Zerex G-05?
    Zerex G-05 is an ethylene glycol based coolant with an HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology) inhibitor package. It is phosphate free, fully formulated (contains nitrite) and protects against hard water deposits and corrosion. As a testament to the quality, Mercedes has been using this formula for over 20 years.
    - What is a HOAT coolant and why is it different from conventional and extended life coolants?
    An HOAT coolant uses both inorganic and organic inhibitors. HOAT coolants offer the best of all technologies for both immediate and long lasting protection. Inorganic inhibitors provide fast acting aluminum engine protection from boiling and erosion while the organic materials offer non-depleting, long term protection.
    - What vehicles use Zerex G-05 in the factory fill and what is the dye color?
    1984 Mercedes and beyond (light yellow)
    1990 Deere and Company vehicles and beyond (green)
    2001 Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep and beyond (orange)
    2002 Ford, Lincoln and Mercury trucks and SUVS and beyond (yellow)
    2003 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury automobiles and beyond (yellow)
    - What aftermarket products are approved by Ford and Chrysler?
    Ford, Lincoln, Mercury brands - Ford Motorcraft Gold and Zerex G-05
    Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep brands –Mopar 5/100 Antifreeze and Zerex G-05
    - What is the difference between these products?
    All products use the Zerex G-05 formulation. The only difference is the dye color.
    - Are extended life coolants compatible with G-05? And vice versa?
    Mix coolant types in an emergency but for optimum long life protection it is best to use the OEM recommended fluid exclusively.
    - Can you use an extended life coolant in a Ford and Chrysler vehicle?
    Both the Ford and Chrysler owners’ manuals do not recommend using unapproved extended life products such as DEX-COOL or equivalents in their vehicles and state that improper maintenance may invalidate the warranty of the cooling system. In addition, many vehicles are not designed for DEX-COOL or equivalent organic acid, extended life coolants. For example DaimlerChrysler is reported to have experienced solder corrosion issues in heater cores with some DEX-COOL type fluids.
    - Can you use Zerex G-05 in a GM Vehicle?
    While one can use Zerex G-05 in a GM vehicle, Valvoline recommends that you use a GM DEX-COOL approved formula in a GM vehicle under warranty.
    - Can Zerex G-05 be used in diesel applications?
    Yes. Zerex G-05 is a fully formulated (nitrite containing) coolant that will help protect diesel engine cylinder liners from pitting corrosion. It has also been approved by Cummins and Deere & Company.
    - Is it safe to use Zerex G-05 in European and Japanese manufactured vehicles?
    Zerex G-05 is compatible with Japanese and European cooling systems as an aftermarket equivalent.
    Consult the owner’s manual for manufacturer recommendations and warranty information.
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 112,920 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 311,200 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms

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    Jeepman,
    Lots of words there. So would it be a good idea to replace the green Prestone in my 1997 T&C 3.8 with the newer MoPar HOAT or stay with the green? Lugnut
    1997 Town & Country Lxi 3.8L 189K
    2004 Town & Country LTD 3.8L 118K
    2002 Honda Accord EX V6 125K
    2007 Nissan Altima L4 60K

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugnut View Post
    Jeepman,
    Lots of words there. So would it be a good idea to replace the green Prestone in my 1997 T&C 3.8 with the newer MoPar HOAT or stay with the green? Lugnut
    The HOAT is suppose to be backward compatible (so the article says) with the green stuff. In your case, I would stick with the green stuff per your Owner Manual.
    In my Van right now, I have the green stuff. I'm suppose to have HOAT but green works for me. I'm not recommending others do that, I'm feeling more comfortable with two year changes for the Van, with rear heating pipes and all.
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 112,920 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 311,200 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms

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    Cool

    Been meaning to ask those that have repaired/replaced their rear piping, did it rust from the outside, inward, or the inside, outward? Can any tell the difference on their rusted pipes ?
    1990 Plymouth Grand Voyager LE 3.3L LWB-- 207,000 miles and counting ......
    333,134.21 kilometers, for you metric buffs ......
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    Thanks for the advice Jeepman. The green stuff is what was OEM in 1997 so I'm going to just do a drain and fill when I replace my upper and lower hoses. RTV55
    1997 Town & Country Lxi 3.8L 189K
    2004 Town & Country LTD 3.8L 118K
    2002 Honda Accord EX V6 125K
    2007 Nissan Altima L4 60K

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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugnut View Post
    Thanks for the advice Jeepman. The green stuff is what was OEM in 1997 so I'm going to just do a drain and fill when I replace my upper and lower hoses. RTV55
    While you're at it, check your "heater hoses" (especially the rear ones). Since you'll be draining the system, might as well change out the other hoses, too.

    Have you replaced the t-stat ? What about that radiator cap ? I always recommend the one wit the lever.
    1990 Plymouth Grand Voyager LE 3.3L LWB-- 207,000 miles and counting ......
    333,134.21 kilometers, for you metric buffs ......
    For Sale - Make Offer


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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTraveller View Post
    Been meaning to ask those that have repaired/replaced their rear piping, did it rust from the outside, inward, or the inside, outward? Can any tell the difference on their rusted pipes ?
    From the blistering that occurs under the paint on the steel lines AzTraveller, I would say from the outside to inside, most likely. Mine are now covered with thick, sticky rustproofing per the following web site. Seems to hang on inspite of the high temperature. I must check again to see how it is doing.
    Rust check Coat & Protect @ http://www.rustcheck.com/products.asp
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 112,920 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 311,200 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms

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    What the HOAT is going on with coolant for your Van?

    The synopsis, as I see it, of the following information:
    - Zerex G-05 HOAT contains more silicates than the ZEREX IAT "Original Green".
    - ZEREX G-05 HOAT is good for 5 yrs /150,000 miles versus ZEREX IAT "Original Green" being good for 5 yrs /100,000 miles.
    - Don't sweat the use of de-mineralized water.
    - No heater control valves on Generation 4s.

    The information:
    Since 2001, HOAT is the product to use for antifreeze in your Chrysler minivan. It's HOAT, the "Green Stuff" is out. Here's the vehicle use specs from a Valvoline ZEREX site:

    HOAT: Chrysler MS 9769; MTU approved; Daimler Chrysler approved; Ford WSS-M97B51-A1; Federal Specification A-A-870A; John Deere approved; Case MS 1710; ASTM D3306; SAE J1034, J814; GM 1825M, 1899M

    IAT (Original Green)*: GM 1825M, 1899M; Ford ESE-M97B44-A; Chrysler mS 7170; ASTM D3306, D4985; SAE J1034, J814C, J1941; TMC of ATA RP-302B; Federal Specification A-A-870A; ThermoKing; Clarke

    *"Excellent freeze, boil & corrosion protection for all cooling system metals including aluminum

    •*Low-silicate chemistry for heavy-duty applications with use of SCA.
    •Excellent rust and corrosion protection
    •Helps prevent boil-overs and freeze-ups
    •Excellent aluminum protection"

    The word on the street is that HOAT contains less silicates than the "Original Green" and also contains an additive package that keeps it active up to 5 years / 150,000 miles.

    Funny thing though is that when one visits the Valvoline ZEREX web site at http://www.valvoline.com/products/co...ts/antifreeze/ their Technical Bulletins show that their present day, low silicate, long life (5 years / 100,000 miles) "Original Green" has 250 ppm max, Silicon as Si whereas the G-05 HOAT has 252 - 308 ppm Silicon as Si. All other properties seem to be the same. Now isn't that interesting, potentially more silicon in the Zerex G-05 than their present version of "Original Green". If it weren't for the distinctice colors under "Typicals", I would think they had the charts mixed up. The "Original Green" has more extensive testing than G-05 on water pumps as well per the charts, G-05 only showing 100 hours test period (versus 100, 300, 600, 1000 hours for "Original Green").

    What the HOAT does this mean? I have "Green" in my Van now. It's two years old and due for a change. I was going to flush this out and put HOAT back in. Maybe I will reconsider????

    IAT - "Original Green" Technical Bulletin: http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/zerexoriginal.pdf

    HOAT Techncal Bulletin: http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/zerexg05.pdf

    Note the use of de-mineralized water (some naysayers say use nothing but distilled water):
    "For convenience and protection try Zerex® Original Green Ready To Use. Zerex® Original Green Ready To Use combines the excellent temperature and corrosion protection of Zerex® Original Green with de-mineralized water to help reduce the risk of cooling system deposits. The 50/50 mixture provides protection down to -34°F." Wording is the same for their HOAT.

    There have been concerns about silicates plugging up the heater cores / lines during non use of the heaters in the summer months. The Generation 4s have continuous circulation through the heater lines and heaters, there are no inline control valves. Older models did have control valves which prevented circulation when in the closed position.
    2007 GC SXT - Magnesium - S&G - 3.8L - 112,920 kms
    2002 GC Sport - Stone White - 3.3L - 311,200 kms
    2003 Jeep TJ Sport - 4.0L - 251,430 kms

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Jeepman For This Useful Post:

    fatalalbert (01-20-2014)

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    That was good, non-biased, information that accurately describes the development and use of the different coolant types. Thanks for posting that.
    '11 Toyota Camry | 2.5/6AT | Sandy Beach
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    This is all well and good ...

    However, is there anything wrong with sticking with what is/was originally recommended by the auto manufacturer? After all, they were, and in some cases (age/mileage) still are on point for warranty issues involving their recommendations. Changing from one antifreeze to another that is chemically different, even if that difference is (supposedly) insignificant, doesn't seem particularly wise.
    I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.
    '92 PGV SE 3.3 4spd auto 170,000 miles
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