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Gates kit must read (Belt problem)

58K views 68 replies 33 participants last post by  Jbaglien 
#1 ·
I installed the gates kit today. Tensioner and idler pulley were easy to install. I used a 15mm stuby wrench to remove the tensioner nut under the alternator. I tried in vain for hours to install the dam belt. Finally I called Midnight Auto to ask for help. After being disconnected twice I was told sombody would email me in 4-5 business days! With nothing else to do, I played on the internet looking for help with the belt and I found these helpful instructions. Several of these ideas are good ones, and worth passing along. 10 minutes later the job was done.

Gates belt instructions:
Just installed the Gates 38379K for the 3.8 engine. Idler replacement was a breeze. Tensioner was a bit tricky. I went from under the car with a 3/8" "wobble" adapter I found at Sears and a 6" extension. Made that part a lot easier. Stuff a bunch of shop rags against the front of the tensioner to keep the key lined up when tightening.

The belt is a bear to install. I found the easiest way to do it is to seat all pulleys except the water pump. use a small plastic spring clamp on the crankshaft pulley and belt to keep the belt from slipping off. Put a long 15mm wrench on the tensioner, then put the old belt on the wrench and let the excess belt dangle off the front of the car. Put your foot in the belt loop and push down to move the tensioner, and slip thebelt over the water pump pulley. Since it is the only one without a lip or grooves, it slips on much easier than all the other methods I tried. DON'T FORGET TO REMOVE THE CLAMP BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE!
The van seems to be functioning well, and this kit is a lifesaver. I hated trying to thread the belt back on every time it slipped off.

I still urge everybody with this problem to file a complaint with NHTSA. They are the only ones who can put pressure on Chrysler to fix this.
 
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#2 ·
Sears sells a special tool designed to release the tensioner so you can get the belt on/off. It's about a 2 foot long bar you can attach included stubby sockets to. It gives you the leverage you need. Makes removing the belt a breeze. Costs around $35.

Ditto on the NHTSA. Never seems to happen though.
 
#3 ·
Yep, the name of the game is leverage, and a regular 'ol wrench doesn't have enough. Next time, pull out two combination wrenches and figure out how to stick them together to form one long wrench.

I will say the serpentine belt tool is definitely nice for the task, but two or even 3 combination wrenches stacked together works quite well for that.
 
#4 ·
What is the part number or proper description for the Gates kit? I'm carrying a Gates belt around as a spare for my 1999 AWD Ltd but perhaps I should have the kit as well. I know this car has lost a belt at least once. But my recent 2000-mile drive from New York to New Mexico went perfectly, at 20 mpg. I'm now at 80,000 miles. Thanks, Arthur
 
#5 ·
The problem with installing the new belt was that the new gates belt is very snug, the only way to get it on is as described as above. I had no problem moving the tensioner to the maximum looseness, it just did not give any more room. Trust me, any more pressure and I would have busted the dam thing. I have a great belt tool, but the tip of using the old belt on the wrench is a handy one, and I use that trick now. I have changed many belts, and outstide of a saab 900 turbo, I have never had as much trouble installing a belt as I had with this one, thats why I passed along the life saving tip on how to install it. I never would have gotten it on with out this advise.
The gates kit is:
GATES SYSTEM SOLUTION MICRO-V KIT FOR CHRYSLER 3.3 AND 3.8 ENGINES
PART NUMBER 38379K (SKU: GAT-38379K)
The belt is part number DK060956.
Napa wanted over $200 for the kit, I got it from Midway auto supply for $139 plus $12.74 shipping UPS www.midwayautosupply.com/ Ups lost the box, but that is another story.
The kit comes with a new tensioner with a ribbed pulley, a new ribbed idler pulley, belt and a nice yellow sticker to stick under the hood to let people know that the vehicle has been changed from OEM and gives the new gates replacement belt number (DK060956). I am going to purchase a spair belt and keep it in the vehicle, just in case...
Even if you do not have the problem with the belt slipping off (yet) this kit makes the belt quiet. I highly reccomend this kit for piece of mind if nothing else. I hope this helps.
 
#6 ·
Even if you do not have the problem with the belt slipping off (yet) this kit makes the belt quiet. I highly recommend this kit for piece of mind if nothing else. I hope this helps.
While I have found that some aftermarket belts are in fact fairly noisy, a top quality Napa, Gates or Mopar belt is virtually silent and doesn't require upgrading to the Gates belt and pulley system. As I've never had a belt loss event in over 150,000 miles on our Gen 3 3.8 liter van, I'm not at all inclined to buy this new system, especially because that limits my options for buying new belts. That said, if I had a van that was constantly chucking the belt, I'd put the Gates system on in a heart-beat.
 
#9 ·
I respect what you are saying. I am a believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Unfortunately, if it can go wrong, it has on this van, and the belt issue is no exception. I also live in northern vermont where we get a lot of rain and snow. It has been said that these gen 3 vans cannot go through a deep puddle or snow without the belt issue. I just put this out there to people who have had the problems as it seems to be the cure. I don't drive this van. i bought it (new) for my wife in september of 2000. It has left her stranded many times, three times requiring a tow, once for the belt issue. For $150.00 I have one less thing to worry about.
We put 106,000 miles on the '95 grand voyager all wheel drive that was traded in for this van with NO issues. If it were not for the fact that this van has a very good all wheel drive system, and the AWD is no longer avalable I would have traded it years ago.
 
#11 ·
It has left her stranded many times, three times requiring a tow, once for the belt issue. For $150.00 I have one less thing to worry about.
We put 106,000 miles on the '95 grand voyager all wheel drive that was traded in for this van with NO issues. If it were not for the fact that this van has a very good all wheel drive system, and the AWD is no longer avalable I would have traded it years ago.
I totally understand what you're saying. My 1996 Town & Country, which was the very first year of this re-design generation (the one model that should have been LOADED with problems) has been, amazing to say the least. Sure, the stabilizer bar links had to be done, and the A/C Compressor went once, but the van has been an absolute saint. Worse? It has essentially never been garaged until recently, it lives in the Northeast and endures those harsh conditions as well... and yet it's fine. (Don't have any explanation..)

Enter in my new gen. 3... a spiffy, beautifully-maintained gold 2000 Town & Country Limited. All the bells and whistles, spotless interior, ONLY body damage was paint chips on front bumper fascia. Ran like a dream... for a few weeks. In the 9 months that I've owned this van, it's been towed THREE times, twice in the dead of a Colorado winter. I've put WELL over $2500 in repairs into the van. (This is not even including the $$$ spent on the normal repairs that these specific vans require such as the stabilizer bar links.) This is the FINAL year of this generation, the one that should be darn-near flawless when compared to the 1996 model year. But, NOPE.

Of course, now that I've SPENT $2500+ on the van, it meets the high expectations that I have for these vans, save for a few minor things which cannot be helped. (e.g: LWB = heavier = sluggish when compared to my SWB '96)

I'm now nervous to go near the belt on either of my vans. I replaced the belt when the alternator died at random on my 2000. (THAT was a fun, winter midnight repair at 19 degrees out.) I figured it was a good idea since I had to get the belt off anyway. But in order to put the belt back on, I had to attach a socket- extension bar (leverage) to the tensioner in order to get it loose enough to slip the belt on.

The next day, the van died in the middle of a snow storm and had to be towed. Come to find out that the alternator I got was bad, and my belt tensioner was broken. I'll never know if I'm responsible for breaking the tensioner, but I certainly don't want to find out by doing a belt replacement myself again... the tensioner IS rather expensive...
 
#10 ·
DA, is the reason for the old belt and foot 'trick' is that you are doing this job alone? I have learned to get my son to help me put the belt on. He helps align everything and can also slip the belt on or pull the tensioner. Its nice to have a 'helper' if you can find someone willing.

The belt came off our 3.8L last January while my wife was out shopping. My son and I struggled in sub-freezing temps with a nasty north wind to put the belt back on. When I got home, I put a new idler pulley on the van and have not had any problems since.

BTW, I tried an experiment last summer. I took a spray bottle and filled it with water. With the engine idling, I sprayed the belt with the water. Guess what happened? Nothing! I fully expected it to jump off. Better in the driveway in nice weather than in a snowdrift, I reasoned. If it had jumped off, I was ready to buy 'the kit'.

I also tried the Gatorback belt to see if it would cure the squeaking. At first it was promising but within several weeks, it was squeaking worse than the Mopar one. I quickly removed it and went back to Mopar. I just bought a NAPA belt and plan to give that a try.
 
#12 ·
I also tried the Gatorback belt to see if it would cure the squeaking. At first it was promising but within several weeks, it was squeaking worse than the Mopar one. I quickly removed it and went back to Mopar. I just bought a NAPA belt and plan to give that a try.
Have you ever replaced the tension arm? I'm thinking that if both the Goodyear and Mopar belts squeak, your tension arm may not be providing the proper tension on the belt.
 
#13 ·
Some time ago, a mechanic recommended to me that I change out the tensioner when I change the serpentine belt. I was skeptical then. Since then, I have read about this particular issue here, and had my own tensioner-related problem on my 99 Ford, and I am convinced of the following:

Whenever the serpentine belt is replaced, replace the tensioner.

The S-belt should normally last 50,000 miles or more. I am convinced that for most vehicles, the tensioner will not last until the second serpentine belt change. Changing the tensioner whenever you change the S-belt is cheap insurance.
 
#14 ·
Gates belt kit

I too lost my belt repeatedly before going to the gates kit. I do agree the hardest part is getting the new belt on the ribbed pulleys. The "old belt looped over wrench" trick worked for me too.
I do have a question, in looking at the Gates pulleys I noticed that they not only have grooves but also slight ridges on both sides. I wonder if you can use a standard smooth-back belt in an emergency? Both pulleys are idlers and not driving anything, plus the side ridges should tend to hold a regular belt in place. I don't plan on trying this but it would be good to know in case the special Gates belt broke unexpectedly and I was stranded with only my 15mm long handle wrench and my old Gatorback....:ask_wsign
 
#26 ·
I too lost my belt repeatedly before going to the gates kit. I do agree the hardest part is getting the new belt on the ribbed pulleys. The "old belt looped over wrench" trick worked for me too.
I do have a question, in looking at the Gates pulleys I noticed that they not only have grooves but also slight ridges on both sides. I wonder if you can use a standard smooth-back belt in an emergency? Both pulleys are idlers and not driving anything, plus the side ridges should tend to hold a regular belt in place. I don't plan on trying this but it would be good to know in case the special Gates belt broke unexpectedly and I was stranded with only my 15mm long handle wrench and my old Gatorback....:ask_wsign
It may work for pretty short distances. The tensioner and idler pulleys in the
Gate's kit are smaller than OEM. The idler is much smaller. I think original one sided belt would be too loose.

In addition, while waiting for the new pulleys, I tried using the original belt with the Gate's tensioner (ribbed pulley) and original idler; I was lazy and didn't want to pull the tensioner again:) It seemed to work until I put some water on the belt to see if it would stay in place. The belt slipped up over the inside of the tensioner pulley and started rubbing on the tensioner arm. About two thirds of the belt was on the pulley while the inner edge of the belt rubbed on the tensioner arm. I don't know how far you could drive the the belt rubbing the tensioner before it overheated or shredded. Maybe a shorter belt would solve this problem.
 
#16 ·
Always a good idea to replace the tensioner when you do a belt. I studied the gates kit before I put it on, and I had the same question about using the old belt in an emergency. I too believe the old single sided OEM belt could be used in an emergency.
I think my van is a vertual clone of the gold T&C mentioned above. Mine is sliver with matching silver mopar running boards and a rear spoiler (optional on the T&C but just like the caravan sport. I have spent $1,400 just in parts in the last month. I am beyond upset, it is now humerous.
I have a belt tensioner tool, but have found the belt arround the wrench and looped over the left foot to be a handy trick, it leaves both hands free to work.
Today was the first full day of driving with the gates system. My wife said it is still quiet, quieter than it has ever been. We got 6" of snow last night and I forgot to put the van in the garage, we are getting another 2-4' tonight. I do not have to worry about the belt comming off. YEA!
 
#17 ·
I had a 1990 GV, bought new. At 6000 miles,
I was parked in a mall parking lot waiting, when I was leaving I lost power steering. I open the hood and noticed the belt was off, I put the belt back on, noticed how loose it was, touched the tensioner, it fell off.
I figured I would drive it to the dealer, I made it 2 blocks, the temp guage was going up. Some guy comes out of his house asking if there was a problem, I told him to call a tow truck. 3 hours later he showed up because he said there was a big pile up at a train crossing, he was very busy that day.
2 days later I pick it up, new belt and tensioner. Service woman said always change the tensioner when getting a new belt. The total bill was $66.
I kept my eye on that belt, at 66,000 miles I noticed belt was getting tiny cracks all over the surface, and the inside of belt was all dried up.
I took it to dealer, they changed the belt and tensioner, took 40 minutes and the bill was $70.
The new belt was shaped differently inside, it had round ribbing.
That belt still looked good when I junked van at 168,000 miles, but the ribbing looked v shaped, but no cracking or discoloration.
 
#18 ·
If the bill came to $70, I guess the belt-tensioner part doesn't cost much... good to know.
 
#20 ·
I recently attempted to install the Gates kit on the 3.3L Grand Voyager. I had no success; that belt would not go on.

After a couple of phone calls with Rock Auto (kit price $119) they had confirmed with Gates that I had the correct part.

I contacted Gates via email who also verified I had the correct parts. They also sent me an email with a Gates tech tip on this, it reads
"Through field reports and testing, Gates has discovered that there have been
some instances of the belt included in the 38379K Micro-V® Kit being too
short for the application. In some cases where the air conditioning
compressor has been replaced with an aftermarket unit, the pulley can be
slightly larger than the OE, resulting in fit concerns. Field reports have
indicated that the idler and tensioner pulleys can be replaced with the Gates
part number 38008, which is 6mm smaller and will enable the belt to fit in this
case.

Gates engineers have determined that after this modification has been
performed, the tensioner indicator should be in an acceptable position for the
drive, as referenced in the photo below."

I have 2 pulleys on order. Hopefully, this will solve the problem.
 

Attachments

#25 ·
I received the pulleys and with high expectations installed them. That belt still would not go on :( sigh....

I used DASander's suggestion of putting the belt on the all the pulleys except the non-groved waterpump. With the tensioner all the way to the end of the travel, I was successfully able to slide the belt onto the waterpump pulley.

I probably could have done this without the new pulleys as they only add about half an inch to the effective length of the belt. The tension indicator is now a little to the left of the desired position (indicating looser than ideal), but it is working fine.

I even dumped water all over the belt while running to verify that it stayed put.
 
#22 ·
Neighbor's '00 DGC ES 3.8L Throwing Belt

One of my neighbors has a 2000 DGC ES 3.8L... apparently his belt has flown off "at least once every two months." Which to me, is quite alarming. I'm now avoiding even the slightest puddles like the plague if at all possible because apparently his van throws the belt if the humidity in the air goes above 60%.

I thought he was lying until he called me last week to help him put the new belt on as the company he always had do it wasn't going to show up for another 3-4 hours.

It's just weird to me because the engine is exactly the same as the one on my 2000, yet the belt was no where to be seen.

I've been convinced that just because my 1996 has been near-perfect, karma requires that my 2000 be the exact, opposite with everything that can go wrong, going wrong. But the 2000 hasn't thrown the belt and it's got over 100k miles.
 
#23 ·
One of my neighbors has a 2000 DGC ES 3.8L... apparently his belt has flown off "at least once every two months." Which to me, is quite alarming. I'm now avoiding even the slightest puddles like the plague if at all possible because apparently his van throws the belt if the humidity in the air goes above 60%.

I thought he was lying until he called me last week to help him put the new belt on as the company he always had do it wasn't going to show up for another 3-4 hours.

It's just weird to me because the engine is exactly the same as the one on my 2000, yet the belt was no where to be seen.

I've been convinced that just because my 1996 has been near-perfect, karma requires that my 2000 be the exact, opposite with everything that can go wrong, going wrong. But the 2000 hasn't thrown the belt and it's got over 100k miles.
Your 2000 has over 100,000 miles??? I thought that thing was a cream-puff with only like 30,000 miles on it when you bought it a year or so ago.

Regarding you're neighbor's DGC, has he ever had the tension arm replaced? Is there any evidence of coolant or lubricant getting on the belt? Do all of the pulleys turn easily? Do all of the pulleys appear to be well lined up?
 
#24 ·
Guys, I know this thread is about the Gates kit, but why is it being used instead of the OEM belt? The OEM belts we've replaced have always stayed on fine. Is this endemic to certain products or engines? Also, with the Gates kit being a somewhat shorter belt, isn't that what is causing the install problem?
 
#27 ·
I chose to use the Gates kit to "ensure" that the belt did not slip off again. I did some research when the belt starting coming off a couple of weeks ago (169K mi). There were a number of people that complained about the belt still coming off after replacing the belt and tensioner. I did not want to take the chance of still having a problem after installing OEM parts.

Now that I know how to install the Gates kit, it really is not a problem to install even though the belt is a tight fit. Though I should never have to replace it again before the vehicle rusts out and I get rid of it ;)
 
#32 · (Edited)
as it says: " Gates kit must read (Belt problem) [Archive] - The Chrysler ..."
RobG ' post 20' very good information. thanks very much.
"Through field reports and testing, Gates has discovered that there have been
some instances of the belt included in the 38379K Micro-V® Kit being too
short for the application. In some cases where the air conditioning
compressor has been replaced with an aftermarket unit, the pulley can be
slightly larger than the OE, resulting in fit concerns. Field reports have
indicated that the idler and tensioner pulleys can be replaced with the Gates
part number 38008, which is 6mm smaller and will enable the belt to fit in this
case.
Gates engineers have determined that after this modification has been
performed, the tensioner indicator should be in an acceptable position for the
drive, as referenced in the photo below."


I ordered a gates kit 38379k and there was no way of getting the belt
(DK060956) on to the -3.8 -1999 setup - I do not know if the
ac has been changed..... so I got 2 new pulleys @ 16$ each..... Gates - Belt Drive Pulley
Part Number: 38008
.....still too tight but almost there .....so I loosened the top alternator bolt and rotated the alternator towards the front .....that made it right to put on the belt at the water pump pulley...rotated the crankshaft pulley (with hand) to get the belt seated right .....then with the belt drive tensioner still down - pushed back the alternator, tightened bolt. Finally on..... so far so good.
 
#33 ·
I put this kit on my 2000 a few months ago. The belt was somewhat difficult to get on but not impossible. So far so good. I am just waiting for a good storm so i can drive through a big puddle close to home.
 
#34 ·
It really mystifies me as to why some 3.3/3.8 engines do nothing but throw the belt off every day at the slightest chance of precipitation... and then others, like both of mine, could drive through darn-near flood waters and won't budge.

.... it makes me wonder if some of the engines used pulleys made by a different manufacturer than others that might be JUST different enough to cause this problem.
 
#35 ·
It is odd. Mine threw the belt once in a big puddle, around 2001, put a new belt on it and hasn't happened since. I frequently drive through water over 1.5 feet deep when we have our occasional big storms here and the sewers can't keep up. The worse I've done was I could reach my arm out the window and without much effort, touch the water. For that one I pulled the intake hose off so it wouldn't suck water from the bumper area.

The pulley deal sucks for those that have the problem.
 
#36 ·
I absolutely hate that my 97 was destroyed. I never threw a belt even when I once hit a huge puddle in a rainstorm that almost caused me to go off of the road. My 2000 threw the belt after hitting a puddle so small I couldn't believe it. (probably 18" in diameter and maybe 1/2" deep at most)
The 97 didn't have any of the typical problems including rusted strut towers and the leaky front evaporator. I was shocked when I went looking for another 3rg gen and found that every one had rust in the strut towers and all but 2 would have needed immediate repairs.

Just before I put the Gates kit on I checked the alignment (the best I could with all the space available) of all of the pulleys and found everything in perfect alignment. I can't figure out what causes it. (the 97 and the 2000 have 3.8L engines with air)
 
#41 ·
mY 97 3.8 never threw the belt no matter how much water I drove through. My 2000 3.8 was completely different. The shield is perfect and when the belt cam off in a storm, I just replaced the tensioner thinking this was the problem. No such luck. Everything looked exactly the same as the 97 but the belt would come off if i hit a very small puddle. It came off so easily it was ridiculous. I'm talking a puddle maybe a foot in diameter and less than 1/2" deep.
All of the pulleys were in line (measured as best as you can in the limited space) I bought the kit and it has never come off since.

I'm guessing that there is one or more pulleys that are twisted slightly on some vans. Until I bought my 2000 I couldn't believe how so many people had the problem.
 
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