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Horn Stopped Working

109K views 74 replies 11 participants last post by  Mgoglia 
#1 ·
Hey, guys, yesterday I found out the hard way that my horn isn't working anymore. This one car ahead of me wasn't moving when the lights turned green and I tried to use my horn to make her notice but, the horn didn't work. I came home check the fuse and relay and they seemed to be good. Horn does work when I press the panic button on my keyless entry key, but doesn't work from the steering wheel. I read somewhere that it might be a clockspring problem, however, I am not getting a air bag light either, also the cruise control works fine as well, the only thing that's affected is the horn. Can this be possibly caused by the clockspring? Are there any recalls on the clockspring for the 06 year minivans?
 
#2 · (Edited)
The first thing I would try is disconnecting the IOD fuse for 10 minutes. If that doesn't clear it up, there must be a lost connection somewhere between the horn switch and the horn.
 
#3 ·
Tried pulling the IOD fuse which reset the clock on the radio, that didn't work. Then I took both of the battery cables off the terminals and left them unhooked for a few minutes (5mins), also touched them together while they were unhooked to discharge and capacitors. Hooked the battery cables back up and still no go. The weird thing is that the air bag light is not on and the cruise control works perfectly as well. Maybe it's time to take the air bag panel off and see if there is any wires not connected properly? Does anyone know how many wires from the clockspring connect to the steering cover? Is it one single plug or different sets of plugs for horn/cruise etc.,? Please let me know before I go ahead and pop out the cover, I think there are only two screws at the back that have to be undone, plus disconnecting the negative battery prior to doing this is a good way to be safe from the air bag deploying.
 
#4 ·
do you have a remote starter installed on this van? if so, often times when the installers splice into the horn wire in the steering column they can damage the wire and it will fail over time..

also, try pressing firmly with your thumb in the middle of the bag pad around the logo, sometimes these vans have a hard time making contact on the horn pad contact (esp. when it's colder and the plastic becomes stiffer..)
 
#5 ·
Ok, took the airbag cover off and from visual inspection all the wire contacts look fine to me. I wiggled where the wires connect to make sure nothing was loose, but, seems it's all good. Installed the cover back, hooked up the negative cable to the battery terminal and still no horn. Also, there have been no remote starters installed on this vehicle ever, and there isn't any splicing if wires. I guess it looks mostly like a bad clockspring, which is around 200 bucks Canadian at the dealership, which I won't be buying anytime soon, I don't use the horn that much anyways. I'm surprised with so many other 4th generation owners having problems with the clockspring, this isn't a recall issue, especially when it also connects the airbag as well.
 
#6 ·
Ok, where the dealership quoted 200 bucks for the clockspring, a dorman clockspring for the year 2005 is only around 30 bucks. If you go by the oem part numbers for both years the only difference is that the last two letter are AC instead of AA, however, the 2005 clockspring looks identical to the one on my van. I might just go ahead and order that one and see if it fits, can't really go wrong with 30 bucks.
 
#7 ·
Ok, something else I just found out after taking to the parts guy at the dealership. The clockspring is the same for model years 2001-2010. The original part number is 5082050AA and in 2006 they changed that number to 5082050AC, but the actual part is the same. When you search for 5082050AC part number there are no matches for after market part, so one thinks that it's a dealer only item, when in fact it's the same part as 5082050AA and there indeed a aftermarket clockspring available from dorman part # 525-101 which retails for about 40 bucks. So sneaky on the part of Chrysler to do this. Even though they don't sell the earlier part number 5082050AA, it's still listed in their catalogue for retail price of 60 dollars, whereas the same part with a new number ending with AC is listed at retail price of around 200 bucks. I hope this helps anyone else that need this part replaced. I'll be grabbing the dorman clockspring later today and installing it myself, as it doesn't look to be too hard. I'll report back on how it goes and if it does resolve the horn issue.
 
#9 ·
Ok, guys, here's the next update. The aftermarket clockspring that sells for 40 bucks is the same, a perfect fit. Aftermarket one is made to replace oem part number 5082050AA, but it also works for oem part number 5082050AC which supersedes the old part number which ends with AA. So, for anyone needing a clockspring for the 4th generation van, don't bother with getting oem one from dodge for 200 bucks just get the dorman part number 525-101 and save yourselves 160 bucks. I find this so unethical on the part of Chrysler to do this, are they trying to make up for all the clocksprings they had to replace under warranty for older model van? Just sickening how they are scamming their consumer. Actually, going by the parts guy at the dealership they are still using this clockspring for the 5th generation vans as well. They just changed the two letters in the parts number and jacked up the price from 60 bucks to 200.

Now, back to my horn problem, first of all, let me say that changing the clockspring was very easy, as long as you follow the safety measure of disconnecting the negative battery cable, it should all be good. Very easy job to do, I didn't even need a steering puller, just used my bare hands to take the steering off, just wiggled it a little and off it came, very easy. The new clocksprings have a little tab that centers them, which you can break off after you put the steering will off. Now back to the horn, no, the clockspring didn't fix the horn problem. I guess my old clockspring was good afterall. Also, I tried grounding the horn wire from the steering column to see if the horn works and rule out the horn pad, and looks like the horn doesn't work, and it has something to do with the wiring after the clockspring. I even tried to ground the wiring for the horn from the wiring harness that plugs on the back side of the clockspring and still no go. So, I guess my old clockspring was fine, and the horn pad is also fine, it looks to be something with the wiring. I'm not too much of an electrical person, but where do you guys recommend I check the wiring next, where does the horn wire lead to? Does it go directly to the fuse box? Maybe a cold solder connection there that needs to be fixed. Please advice where I should go from here. Thanks.
 
#10 ·
the ground circuit from the horn switch goes through the clock spring (C1 - pin3, DG/VT wire) to the IPM (C7 - pin 19, DG/VT wire)
Inside IPM, it does to FCM via pin 17 and Horn Relay Control (ground side of relay coil) is sent back to IPM via pin 10..
the supply for the Horn relay is through Fuse #8 20 Amp

The Horn receives power via IPM connector (C2, pin 5 - DG/OR wire) this is listed for high note horn.. (but is probably for both..)

you can look for yourself:
http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/2006/docs/wd/rs/wiringdiagrams/8w41horncigarlighterpoweroutlet.pdf

If you've not done so already, try swapping the horn relay - just to make sure...
 
#20 ·
atoman, thanks for the schematics, I just have a question, according to the diagram, the wire from the horn pad (steering wheel) goes to the IPM and then to the FCM and then to the ground point of the horn relay (85), does this mean that if while the relay is in it's place and point 85 is shorted to a ground point on the vehicle, will doing this activate the horn?
 
#11 ·
Have you unplugged the connector at the horn and plugged a 12V bulb into the connector and have someone press the horn to see if the bulb comes on? I had the horn on my 1999 fail and it was replaced under warranty.

Frank
96 Grand Voyager retired
99 DGC Sport retired at 137K miles (still running fine for my friend)
07 T&C SWB with 30825 miles
 
#12 ·
Looks like the horn is receiving the power as it does activate upon pressing the panic button, however it doesn't activate from steering wheel, and from my diagnosis it seems the horn pad is not the problem as I grounded out the horn wire coming up to the steering column before and after the clockspring, meaning that the horn pad is ok and the clockspring is ok as well, but the fault lies in the wiring from the clockspring to the intelligent power module (IPM), or within the circuit board of the IPM.
 
#13 ·
I'm thinking my next step should be to take out the intelligent power module and turn it over and look for the dark green (with purple stripe) wire, which supposedly is the horn wire and look for any bad connections for that wire to the circuit board and try fixing that bad connection by soldering etc., Guys, what do you think? Am I on the right track?
 
#14 ·
That IPM has been troublesome for some people. That sounds like a good next step. Hopefully, you'll just find a bad wire, and not a fried IPM. From what I've read here, it's unlikely it's a bad IPM, because when that happens, lots of things go wrong.
 
#15 ·
Too cold here today to do anything with the van, as I just work on it in my driveway. I'm just going to leave it for now and take a go at it when the weather gets a bit warmer. I'm not having any other problems whatsoever, except for this, so hopefully it will turn out to be a bad wire only. I've never done this before, but, from what I've read the procedure involves disconnecting and removing the battery, and there's a tab you press on to and flip the IPM over which should have a few connectors on it at the bottom and I guess I'll have to remove all of those connectors one by one. If someone has worked on the IPM before please chime in and let me know what to expect when I turn it over. Is the circuit board easily accessible ones you turn it over or is there more to it? Please give some tips or pointers if you know. thanks.
 
#16 ·
before you tear the IPM apart, connect a multimeter with a chime to the horn signal wire (you can pull the connector from IPM) and ground and go press the horn pad on the steering wheel... it there's no chime from the meter there's no reason to mess with the IPM - you'll need to look at the wiring from the wheel to IPM...
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the heads up. I've not used a multimeter before but from what you're saying, I should first disconnect the battery, turn over the IPM, take out the connector that has the horn wire coming to it, I believe it's connector C7 (pin#19), hook up the lead from multimeter to this pin and other lead to a ground point on the vehicle and upon pressing the horn I should hear a beep if the wire is good, if wire is broken then no beep. Do, I have this right? Or, is there something I'm leaving out? Thanks again.
 
#19 ·
He he, yes you're right, I have no experience in using multimeter, and I don't want be over confident and mess something up. That's why I ask so many questions, so, I can do it right the first time, without making it worse. I have completely lost faith in mechanics, looks like most of them are not only incompetent but are also crooks, they are only after one thing, and that is your money.

I have decided to do the diagnosis on a more sunny/warmer day. It's snowing here and it's cold and wet, not a good time to be opening up electronics under the hood. In the mean time, please bear with me if I ask more question, it will just make me more prepared to do the job. Thanks.
 
#22 ·
Yes, horn works by pressing the panic button on keyfob, my guess is, that's it's definitely a wiring issue from clockspring to the IPM, either it's a broken wire or lots of corrosion that needs to be cleaned up. The weird thing is that the horn was working just fine a few days ago. We have been having alot of wet weather here lately, maybe that sped up the corrosion enough to effect the contact.
 
#24 ·
Hey Guys, looks like my horn is working. It just started working on it's own. I haven't even done anything yet, I was on my way home just a little bit earlier and I thought I try the horn, and, voila, it works. Now I'm really confused. What could of it been? After all this troubleshooting it didn't work, and I was ready to pull out the IPM when the weather got a bit warmer. And suddenly, now it works. I wonder if it's a good idea to take the IPM/FCM apart when better weather hits and clean everything up? Is it safe to mess with the IPM etc., I just don't want to mess anything up, if it's not needed.
 
#25 ·
Something that also got me thinking was that maybe it was all caused by a bad ground point? Could this be the case? Is there a special ground point for the steering wheel that I can check for corrosion etc,. and clean it up?
 
#26 ·
you know how the saying goes: if it aint broke...
what are you going to gain by taking it apart - checking the connectors underneath might be worth it though :)

BTW, if there was a ground problem, you probably would've seen the air bag light...
 
#27 ·
Well, if it keeps working like it is now, than I'm not in a hurry to take the IPM apart. Maybe in the summertime I'll take it out check all the connectors, clean em up using contact cleaner, as well as the IPM and FCM too. Then use some dielectric grease to seal everything up and put it back together, hoping it will increase the life of the components and keep them from corroding.

Also, another thing that came to mind was, that before the horn stopped working, I did go thorough a car wash, might be that some water got some place and froze due to the cold weather and caused some connection to not make contact anymore, thus causing the horn to stop working? Just a theory.
 
#29 ·
I'm in the "if it ain't broke" camp. Could open a bucket of worms if you start taking things apart. Try the easy stuff first. Park it in a deserted area, hold the horn pad down and turn the steering wheel full left and right a few times. This will excersize the clockspring and could reveal an intermittent open in it.
 
#31 ·
Actually, I replaced the clockspring with a new one from carquest for 40 dollars, as the dealership sells them for 200 dollars. If you read my earlier post, you'll see how the clockspring is the same from year 2001 to 2010 and Chrysler just changed the last two numbers for the clockspring part in 2006 and jacked up the price 140 bucks, however, you can easily get the dorman part number 525-101 which is exactly the same part for 40 bucks or under, I have seen them on ebay for as less as 20 bucks, I wouldn't be surprised if it's made in the same factory as the aftermarket one as it looks identical to the oem one. However, changing the clockspring didn't fix the horn, even though I kept testing to see if the horn works for a few day after changing the clockspring. However, it just started working on it's own yesterday and is still working perfectly till now, without any interruption, which leads me to believe it must of been something else than the clockspring, as I didn't get any airbag light or interruption in the cruise control buttons.
 
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