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Power Liftgate stopped working

23K views 22 replies 15 participants last post by  TripleJackInGA 
#1 ·
I have a 2009 T&C Touring with the power doors/liftgate and a couple of months ago the liftgate stopped closing using the power option. It would go up smoothly but then just not respond at all when I hit the button to close it.

I read on this forum that it might help to disconnect the battery for a while but when I did that, the liftgate started not opening properly. It will start to open about a quarter of the way and then the motor stops and the door starts bouncing up. I can hear a clicking in the motor gearbox that seems like a relay clicking on/off.

I took the lift rod off to see if maybe the motor was working too hard but it acted the same way. I finally took the van to the dealer to have them check for any computer errors or faults and see if they could help. They didn't find any error codes so they reset the software but that didn't help. They suggested lift gate strut replacements and a new liftgate motor. Their thought was the motor had a couple of dead spots on it and had worn out. They wanted nearly $1000 CAD for parts and labor so I declined.

When I got home, I decided to pull the liftgate motor out of the van and did some bench testing on it. I found that if I apply voltage to the motor it spins and runs with no issues. I also found there is a reversing solenoid in the gearbox that engages the gears to actually drive the chain. I applied voltage to that circuit while providing power to the motor and the drive mechanism works flawlessly. I can run the motor to move the chain from one end to the other and back with no issues what so ever.
I then plugged the motor back into the van and it went back to only moving a few inches and stops. This makes me feel there is something in the van's computer system telling the motor to stop rather than the motor being the source of the issue.

I would like to be able to use the power open/close option but I don't want to waste a lot of money replacing good parts, or needlessly paying the dealer.
Do any of you have any suggestions on how to proceed from here?
Is my bench testing method flawed? Is there the possibility that the computer is sensing a heavy draw from the motor and shutting it down? Would that throw an error code that could be checked by the dealer?
Is it that the computer has lost its sense of where the door is and needs the upper and lower limits reset?
Do I go ahead and buy a replacement motor and hope that helps?

I'm really at a loss on this one and could really use some expert advice.
Sorry if this is the wrong forum... I'm new around here.

Thanks!
 
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#3 ·
Hi Danny,
Nope, the motor has no burnt smell and visually seems to be in good shape. I took the cover panel off and could see the plastic gears inside the housing and found no stripped gears, broken pieces or missing teeth. It all seemed to be in really good shape.
The thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that it opened the liftgate reliably up until I pulled the battery cable off to reset the software. It was only then that the door started to only open 1/4 of the way.

Would a failing motor show up on a scan for codes from the dealer?
Can the motors be swapped without visiting the dealer to have the computer reset?

I will start a search for a used one regardless to rule it out but it just seems like something in the van's system is turning off the motor rather than it failing.
You have any idea what I could check while I search for a replacement?
 
#4 ·
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think its the motor, too. The computer uses the motor current to "discover" an obstruction to opening the hatch. I think the current's going up enough that the cpu thinks your arm or neck is in the way and shuts itself down. Motor may need lubrication, new bearings or complete replacement.

Best of luck!
 
#5 ·
After a disconnect of the battery, most likely a learn cycle is needed:

POWER LIFTGATE LEARN CYCLE

Any time a power liftgate component is removed, replaced or a liftgate adjustment is performed, a learn cycle must be performed. This learn cycle enables the power liftgate control module to learn or relearn information (travel limits, resistance to door travel, etc.) which allows it to perform properly and safely. To perform a learn cycle do the following:


Obtain an appropriate scan tool.
Connect the scan tool to the vehicle and check for any power liftgate system stored trouble codes, correct and erase any stored codes.
Close liftgate.
Using the scan tool, select the Power Liftgate Module (PLGM) Menu, More Options, System Tests and select the Open Door Test.
Using a scan tool check "routine status" for a pass or fail message. If the Open Door Test did not pass, the scan tool will display the reason to aid in system diagnosis or rerunning the Open Door Test routine.
Using the scan tool, select Power Liftgate Module (PLGM) Menu, More Options, System Tests and select the Close Door Test.
Using a scan tool check "routine status" for a pass or fail message. If the Close Door Test did not pass, the scan tool will display the reason to aid in system diagnosis or rerunning the Close Door Test routine.
Follow the instructions on the scan tool to complete the test.
The liftgate learn cycle is complete.

Also another owner had success by assisting the liftgate while opening and closing:

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-caravan/353852-05-sxt-rear-hatch-opens-but-will-not-close.html

Good luck!
 
#6 ·
After a disconnect of the battery, most likely a learn cycle is needed:
Thank you for the Learn Cycle info. I guess there is no way to do it without taking it back to the dealer, is there? I would be willing to try and have them do it if it meant not replacing the motor unit yet.
I guess I am just having a hard time spending the money on something that on the surface seems to be ok. The original issue started out as it Opening just fine but not closing with the power option. It only stopped opening once I pulled the battery cable. However, I realize there is still the chance it is failing and I will keep looking for a used motor to replace it in the mean time anyway.
Once I locate a used motor, will I need to return to the dealer to reprogram the system and have them do this learn cycle?


Also another owner had success by assisting the liftgate while opening and closing:

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-caravan/353852-05-sxt-rear-hatch-opens-but-will-not-close.html
I can unhook the liftgate rod from the motor and I still get the same reaction from it. It only moves a few inches and then stops and this is with out the weight of the door on it at all....
 
#7 ·
"Is my bench testing method flawed?" I'm thinking when bench testing there's no load on the motor meaning it's not trying to move the door. Find a way to load it up then retest.
 
#8 ·
You are correct, when I bench tested it, there was no load at all. However, when I plugged it into the van harness, I did not connect the motor to the door so there was no load on that test either.
It only moved a few inches and stopped and the voltage to the motor disappeared like the computer was telling it to stop.
 
#11 ·
Thank you for your reply. Were you having the same symptoms as I was?

The liftgate would open 1/4 of the way and then "bounce" open a tiny bit at a time until it was just about 1/2 to 3/4 way open, then float all the way open.

By taking apart the assembly, I determined the voltage to the motor disappeared and the relay dis-engaged, then re-engaged 3 or 4 times. When the relay disengaged, the drive mechanism was able to "freewheel" and that allowed the struts to push the lift gate open until the relay re-engaged. That is what caused the bouncing.

I have been looking for a used assembly but so far have been unsuccessful.
There was a post in this thread that mentioned it may require a "Learn Cycle" but I have been reluctant to return to the dealer and pay them another $100.
 
#13 ·
This sure sounds like worn out struts on the door. The computer uses PWM to control the speed of the door going up and down so thats why the voltage disappears. I would think that the bouncing is from the struts barely able to support the door and the motor lugging. With new struts, the door should raise itself at the half way point without the motors help.
 
#14 ·
While the lift struts aren't new, they are unlikely to be the source of this issue. As it has been stated several times in this thread, the motor assembly acts the same way whether or not it is even attached to the door itself.
I plugged it into the harness, removed the lift rod and lift the gate by hand while pushing the Open button. Therefore, bypassing both liftstruts and ensuring there isn't any undue strain on the motor.
I can also add strain to the motor by adding the liftrod and adding resistance to it but nothing I do has any effect on the the behavior of the motor assembly.
 
#16 ·
I had the same problem. Mine is 4th generation (model year 2002) but the logic is the same for the liftgates at least... Before taking the van to the electrician, I have just wanted to take a look at this forum and I found this solution as described in dodge forum linked by "laptnc". I assisted (pushing down) the liftgate while closing just for once and it started working correctly on it's own. I do not have any problem since I performed this assistance today. It is really weird but successful as said in that forum. Thank you for your help!! "laptnc"...
 
#19 ·
I might be very paranoid but the more I read the threads on this 5th gen forum it reinforces the gut feeling I have.
I have a gut feeling that our vans have hidden bits of software that are designed to disable certain modules throughout the car to ensure we have to take it back to the dealership and or buy new parts.
Kind of like how VW had hidden software but for a different purpose.
 
#22 ·
I might be very paranoid but the more I read the threads on this 5th gen forum it reinforces the gut feeling I have.
I have a gut feeling that our vans have hidden bits of software that are designed to disable certain modules throughout the car to ensure we have to take it back to the dealership and or buy new parts.
Kind of like how VW had hidden software but for a different purpose.
You might not be too far off. Chrysler was also accused of the very same thing VW was:

American Regulators Investigate Fiat

If vehicle manufacturers have the guts to cheat Government Agencies, would they refrain from cheating customers?
 
#20 ·
I have a VW Routan-which is a Town & Country-with a VW badge on it. And the tranny is throwing all kinds of codes. Software crap...as mentioned by @Ozvan.
 
#21 ·
Just imagine what this would be like if that software was controlling the driving as well. I have this "gut feeling" that we were better off with the vehicles before computer controls. Actually, it's more than a gut feeling - it's a pretty strong conviction. (I am a computer system builder, and it sure better be more reliable than computer operating systems.)
 
#23 ·
On my 2013 GC, I just had a similar issue. Noticed it was wither not wanting to open, or when I did open it, it would get fully open, then act all herky jerky.
Turned out there are 2 flat plastic pieces on either side of the chain, that limit how much lateral travel it has within the track.
Somehow, the end of one broke off, and then it just fell out. The added slack seemed to make the thing act like it was hitting resistance (such as hitting something), so it would act weird.
I couldn't find just those pieces, but found a good replacement assembly on ebay for $70 shipped, so just waiting on that to show up.
 
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