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Replace transmission in 97 Grand Voyager?

18K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  maryalene 
#1 ·
Hi,

I found this site while searching for info online and thought maybe some of the posters here might have some thoughts on my situation. I apologize if I am posting in the wrong place.

We have a 97 Grand Voyager SE. We bought it used about 4 years ago, and it has been a really good vehicle. It has 191,000 on it with very little repairs. It started making a grinding noise recently, and we found out today that the transmission is going bad. It will cost $2600 to replace it. My gut feeling it to go ahead and repair it, but I don't want to pour money into the van if the engine is not going to last. I asked the mechanic what he thought, and he said that in his opinion, the 3.3 engine in my van is the best Chrysler has ever made. He thought the odds were in my favor that if we replaced the transmission, the engine would still last quite a while.

However, I thought I would see if I could get some other opinions. As is, I don't think we would get much for the van as a trade in, and my gut feeling is that replacing the transmission will be cheaper than buying a new used vehicle. I'm not horribly mechanically inclined so I don't know much about engines. Anyone have any experience with this van? Any thoughts on whether it would be wise to spend that much on it?

Thanks in advance!

Maryalene
 
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#2 ·
Not to question your conclusion, but are you sure the transmission is gone? There are many shops and even dealers that will recommend a tranny rebuild when it may not be necessary. You want to post your symptom, error codes, etc.
Yes, the 3.3 is a pretty durable engine but 191,000 miles is a lot. You should get it and the rest of the van checked out to decide if it worth putting in a new tranny.
 
#3 ·
one other thing to consider, a rebuilt tranny for your van goes for 400-600 at most "chain" tranny shops. the rest is all installation. with basic tools even someone who didnt know what they were doing and took thier time could get it swapped out in a weekend. I understnad that you may not even want to attempt this job, but even if the tranny was $1000, thats still $1600 for labor. Not bad for a 4 hour (real time, not book time) job. its time to shop around. even a new factory tranny is only about $2000.
 
#5 ·
I just went though a similar thought process, albeit with only 109,000 on my van at the time. I opted for the $2,600 factory reman (that you are considering) over any number of lesser expensive options. Assuming that you are going to fix your van as opposed to junking it and starting over, you are where I was six weeks ago.

At the time (before I found this site) I did some research and came up with the following items in favor of the factory unit (some of which may be Bull, others not, however, in total they made a powerful argument):

- ATF+3 transmission fluid (the kind that both of our vans were designed and built for) is apparently being (or already has been) phased out by the Chrysler dealerships (although you can still find it in the aftermarket)
- ATF+4, which is supposed to be backward compatible with ATF+3, is not supposed to be used in "pre-2000" vans per two different TSBs
- Every non-factory option was simply a "rebuild" and not a "remanufacture" and as such still required ATF+3.
- The factory unit is remanufactured to the latest build specifications of that generation of transmission, which happens to be from model year 2000, and as such needs to be fed ATF+4, which is in healthy supply at Chrysler dealerships
- The factory unit also comes with a 3-year or 36,000 mile warranty (much longer than any others that I was able to find), and since I'm one of those weird folks that equates time with money, I felt that if I was going to have to deal with this, I could only afford to do it once

Anyway, that's my $0.02. ;-)
 
#6 ·
Thank you all for your quick responses!

Last week, the van started making a grinding noise from the front when accelerating. It only happens ocassionally and usually when I'm accelerating quickly such as entering the highway. On Saturday, when our family was out and about, it started making the noise on a regular basis. My husband's first thought when he heard it was that it was the transmission, but he thought it could also be a CV joint (?).

Right now, the van is at the dealer who gave us the $2600 quote. I called another mechanic in town who did my husband's truck transmission when it went out and he quoted me $1650 out the door. I know the dealer's transmission comes with a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. I didn't ask the other mechanic about a warranty, but my husband's transmission had a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty on it.

I originally took the van in last Friday, and they couldn't hear the grinding noise but they told me that my power steering fluid was leaking like a sieve and the pump and serpentine belt needed to be replaced. So I had them do that, and it was a little over $400. So part of me feels like I just put a bunch of money into the car, and I might as well do the transmission too.

We also owe a little bit on the van. It's scheduled to be paid off at the end of the year. We have really been trying to get out of debt so my hope had been to squeeze a few more years out of the van to save up a decent amount toward our next vehicle. I really hate to have to take out a new loan, but then again, I don't want to put money into a sinking ship.

I don't know if it makes a difference, but my mileage is about 80% highway miles. I have a long commute - 110 miles roundtrip three days a week - which why the van's mileage is so high.

Thanks again for your comments and thoughts. I truly appreciate them!

Maryalene
 
#7 ·
shipo said:
- ATF+3 transmission fluid (the kind that both of our vans were designed and built for) is apparently being (or already has been) phased out by the Chrysler dealerships (although you can still find it in the aftermarket)
- ATF+4, which is supposed to be backward compatible with ATF+3, is not supposed to be used in "pre-2000" vans per two different TSBs
Service Bulletin 21-010-06, dated April 14, 2006, states that ATF+4 is recommended for 1996-2000 vans, in addition to others:,

"MODELS:
1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - 2007 (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - 2007 (DR/DH/D1) Ram Truck
2007 (DC) Ram 3500 Cab Chassis
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
1996 - 2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
2004 - 2007 (HB) Durango
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2007 (JK) Wrangler
2001- 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
2007 (JS) Avenger/Sebring
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
2002 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker
/300M
2005 - 2007 (LX/LE) 300/Magnum/Charger
1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2005 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - 2007 (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1997 - 2006 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
Vehicles equipped with Gas engines
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
2005 - 2007 (WK/WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 - 2007 (XK/XH) Commander
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer

NOTE: This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to AW-4 transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions, MK/PM vehicles equipped with Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) and WG vehicles equipped with a diesel engine (sales code ENF) and a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

ATF+4® - (Type 9602) is being used as factory fill for Chrysler Group automatic transmissions. ATF+4® is recommended for all vehicles equipped with Chrysler Group automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE NOTED ABOVE."

It goes on to say that "In general terms, If ATF+, ATF+2 or ATF+3 was the recommended fluid, it is now recommended to use ATF+4."
 
#8 ·
BTW Maryalene, I agree a second opinion is in order. The 3.3 is a very solid engine, but 191,000 is a lot of miles, even if they are mostly highway. Good luck.
 
#9 ·
$2600 sounds on the high side. Re. another post as a tech for MANY years and having done a trans swap on my own this is NOT a job for the faint of heart or unskilled. It is WELL worth 500 or more to install it. I will NEVER attempt a FWD trans on my back again! It is too dangerous and way too time consuming. Even with 2 good people on it as I had. Most home jacks and stands cannot get the vehicle high enough (safely) and without a top dollar trans jack there is no way!
Get a second opinion. INternally these units are VERY simple beasts and easily rebuilt cheaply by HONEST shops. I have a couple good shops here that will rebuild one at $1400 out the door and do a very good job.
Re 191000 on the engine. Its' a gamble yeah but one worth taking with a reasonably well cared for 3.3. These engines regularly are seen well over 300,000 with no real issues.
Good luck. Really IMO the biggest thing I worry about with these is rust especially strut towers.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I still don't see how "grinding noise when accelerating" could just be the tranny. Are you having any problems when the transmission shifts? Bump shifts, delays, etc.
Since its at a chrysler dealer insist they scan the tranny computer (TCM) for error codes as well as the CVI values (these will show wear on the clutches). They should do this for free considering you just had work done there.
Forgive my relectuance to trust your dealer. I just had my van at a dealer that recommened a new tranny when I learned from another shop that only the speed sensor was bad ($25). Just be careful.
 
#12 ·
mmahamm said:
Service Bulletin 21-010-06, dated April 14, 2006, states that ATF+4 is recommended for 1996-2000 vans, in addition to others:...
Very interesting... So what changed? According to two earlier TSBs (21-006-01 and 21-004-04) regarding what cars and transmissions can be used with ATF+4, the following language applies: "NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission."

Assumption #1: Nothing inside of my transmission changed between its manufacture date of May 1998 and the time it failed six weeks ago (except of course the fluid and the filter).
Assumption #2: ATF+4 is still the same as ATF+4 was two years ago when that last TSB that I referenced was published.

Assuming that the above two assumptions are correct, then I need to go back to my first question, "What changed?"
 
#13 ·
With 191,000 on the van I would be VERY concerned about all the OTHER stuff in the van going and not so much the motor. Rust, AC, heater cores and lines, racks, power steering, struts, shocks, leaking everything and on and on. What I'm finding with my AWD van with 188,000 miles is that it's regularly spending time in the shop. Usually it seems to be $300-$600 every time and I'm ready to finally say good-by to the thing. I realize that allot of these things are normal wear and tear but it's just not worth it to me at this point of the vans life to keep it. Too much major stuff like the AC and rear heat not woking, plus body rust, struts and shocks that are bad and much much more. You could also be headed down this same road. I would have the van VERY VERY thoroughly gone over to see what else might be needing repair or replacement before getting the tranny done.

Factory remanufactured tranny IS the way to go. I had it done in mine at about 135,000, I had 1 warranty issue with it 1/2 way across the country on a family trip and it was promptly fixed. 3yr/36,000 is awesome. Tranny has been perfect ever since, it's just the rest of the van that's falling apart, in fact I'm picking the van up tonight from the shop after having the power streering pump and hose replaced for another $600. ALSO you should know that you can buy this tranny from Chrysler and have it installed by your own shop it you like and still keep the warranty. I think they just need to fill out the proper paperwork that comes with the unit. I noticed this info in my warranty information that comes with the transmission.

Good luck!

Skidad
98 LE AWD GC, 3.8L, 188,000 miles and counting but not for long

PS...Looking for low mileage 2000 T&C AWD Limited or maybe LXI
 
#14 ·
Concurrance here as well.. basically its a gamble of a trans and possible new breakage of other things vs. the 'known' or fixed cost of bailing into another vehicle (presuming its ok or warrantied)
If you are going to gamble on the rest of the van holding up.. all or nothing.. gamble on a low cost trans as well...
my .02..
roll the dice.. pay your money and take your ride...yeeeee ha!!
 
#15 ·
If you're going to sink all that money into a new transmission, another $100 to a good mechanic or service facility to look the van over is a small price to pay to find out if you potentially have more problems down the road.

I would second the notion to have a dealer pull the TCM codes and CVI values. I have the notorious 4 speed "buzzzzzzzz-tick" sound coming from my transmission solenoid in the '99, and the first thing I did was have that done to make sure it was just a noisy solenoid and nothing else major. Having this done could also save money if the problem can be rectified without replacing the entire transmission.
 
#16 ·
just an example of price here, i have a friend who bought his wife a 1995 grand caravan. ran for 2 years then had tranny problems. he described the fluid to me, and i told him time to get a new tranny. turns out a bearing froze/spun and ate a bit of the case away. his local tranny shop told him they would rebuild it with better parts (im not a tranny guy so ida know) and it would be much more reliable, so much so that they gave him a lifetime garentee on it. including the tow, out the door he paid $1400 with lifetime on tranny. the place i get engines from has the 6 engines ranging from $1600-$2200 for 5 year 100k mile warrenty. this translates to me for $3000-$3600 to get a long while out or your car. how many $3600 cars do you see with a 5 year engine and lifetime trans warrenty on them? just an outsider view, but ive been working on cars for 20 years, and i for one have to say im amazed at what junk sells for now. yes, by all means have it checked out and weigh your options, but take into consideration what it costs to repair as well. if you car is in good shape other then the trans, meaning body wise, personally i would go for it. just make sure you shop around and dont jump to the firt guy.
 
#17 ·
You guys are great! Thanks for all the info. :) The van is still at the dealer because there were two recall items that needed to be fixed. I was then going to take the van to another mechanic to get a second opinion on the tranny and see if everything else looks like it is in good working order. Can the other mechanic pull the codes or does that have to be done at the dealer? Thanks!
 
#18 ·
Many high-end independent shops do have scanners that can read the transmission codes. Just ask if they can read the CVI values as well as tranny error codes. If they don't know about CVI values, they probably don't have the right scanner. I would try get it done at the dealer since its already there.
 
#19 ·
Pappy said:
I still don't see how "grinding noise when accelerating" could just be the tranny. Are you having any problems when the transmission shifts? Bump shifts, delays, etc.
Since its at a chrysler dealer insist they scan the tranny computer (TCM) for error codes as well as the CVI values (these will show wear on the clutches). They should do this for free considering you just had work done there.
Forgive my relectuance to trust your dealer. I just had my van at a dealer that recommened a new tranny when I learned from another shop that only the speed sensor was bad ($25). Just be careful.
The description reminds me of wheel bearings that went bad on a car I had. I hope that the poster is going to make sure that the problem is or is not the tranny.
 
#20 ·
I picked the van up from the dealer last night, and they said that no codes were coming up. They diagnosed it based on the sound it was making and the way the van handled. I had been driving a loaner car from the dealer and didn't have time to get a rental before going to work today. I called the mechanic, and he said that since it is only making the grinding sound occassionally, it probably wouldn't be a problem for me to make it to work and back with the van as is. It drove fine, but about half way to work, the service engine light popped on. The mechanic isn't open again until next Tuesday because of Memorial Day weekend so I am taking it in then, and a relative is lending me their car in the meantime.

My first impression when I heard the grinding sound was that something was rubbing together that shouldn't be. I didn't even think about the transmission at first because it is not necessairly making the sound when it is switching gears. It seems to me that a noise from the transmission would occur when it's switching gears and that it would be ocurring regularly not every once and a while. I'll mention the wheel bearings to the mechanic on Tuesday. When I called to make the appointment, I asked if they would double-check to make sure it is the transmission and if they could look over the van and make sure everything else look to be in good working order.
 
#21 ·
Oh, and I just wanted to add that I have not noticed any problems with the van shifting between gears - no delays or "hiccups" which is what my husband's transmission was doing when it was replaced. As an aside, it's nice to see that others think it might be something other than the transmission. When I mentioned that to the dealer and my husband when the sound first showed up, I felt like I was brushed off as just having wishful thinking. I will make sure the mechanic rules out other causes before replacing the tranny.
 
#22 ·
I won't guarantee this, but the check engine light is most likely another problem. It's rare a transmission problem would trip the check engine light. Does it run OK otherwise?

Personally I wouldn't use that dealer again, even if you find that you do have a transmission problem. They didn't even take the time to do a proper diagnostic on it. To me, it sounds like they just want to keep throwing parts at you until they find the problem. I don't know, maybe the dealer didn't explain something right, but giving you a $2600 estimate for a repair they THINK your van might need based on "the sound it was making and the way the van handled," doesn't seem right to me.
 
#23 ·
I agree, the dealer should have still scanned it for CVI values. I believe any major tranny error WILL set off the engine light. Was the light on before? If it is the tranny and the light has come on, it is probably in "limp" mode. The tranny will be in 2nd gear all the time (computer does does to protect tranny).

Since light is on now and you have the van, you may want to retreive the engine (not tranny) codes yourself with the Key/Odometer:

Place the key into the ignition. Push and hold the both the "Trip" and the "Reset" buttons with the left hand and turn the key to the "ACC" position (first position between "LOCK" and "RUN"). Continue to hold both buttons in and count to 5. Release both buttons, display should read trip mileage instead of total mileage. Push the "TRIP" button and the odometer will display codes.

I believe this should work on your 97 van (I'm assuming you have digital odometer). If not then there's another way to get codes by switching the ignition on-off a few times. You will either get four digit codes (Pxxxx) or two digit codes (less specific). Good luck.
 
#24 ·
Thanks Pappy, I'll give that a try.

The service engine light was on before going to the dealer and had been on for quite a while. For the last several years, my instrument panel has gone off for several days or weeks at a time. The service engine light also goes on when the instrument panel goes off. We took it to a mechanic when it first started happening and was told that the circuit board needed to be replaced. We didn't have the money at the time and since the van ran fine otherwise, we didn't have it fixed. Well, when the dealer was doing the recall work, I asked them to replace the circuit board as well. I figured since we were going to be spending a bunch of money on the van, we might as well get that fixed too. I was told when I picked up the van that the service engine light should be off and that no codes were coming up on the computer anymore (they mentioned that when I asked about transmission codes). Oh, I hope this isn't something new......
 
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