The dreaded evaporative system very small leak [Archive] - The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums

: The dreaded evaporative system very small leak



SuperJETT
07-25-2005, 10:02 PM
At first, figured it was the gas cap, light cleared thanks to the dealer for free, then it reset the day after the next fillup and we were sure the cap was tight.

So, dug in a bit and found a bad short piece of 5/16" under the air filter. Just to double check, I stuck my popoff pressure pump (for jetski carbs) in one end and plugged the other end, stuck it under water and sure enough it was blowing bubbles big time. See attachments. (wish the board allowed inline images)

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=148

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=147

AMD Rules
07-25-2005, 10:13 PM
Nice detective work SuperJ :thumb:

SuperJETT
07-25-2005, 11:00 PM
I'm fairly proud of myself, plus it was a whopping 15 minutes of work to save probably $150-200 plus the hassle of taking it in. It really was easy to find, felt the roughness with my finger actually. I just hope that is the only leak.

DSMLVR
07-25-2005, 11:03 PM
Good Work, GREAT Post.

grimmster
07-25-2005, 11:11 PM
yeah, great work there. I would have popped the hood, said "Gee that looks nice" slammed it shut and made an appointment :)

FlamingGLH
07-25-2005, 11:16 PM
yeah, great work there. I would have popped the hood, said "Gee that looks nice" slammed it shut and made an appointment :)

I would've done the contrary,

Take the whole gas tank apart, take the wheels off, change the gas filter, remove the seats and install some fog lights before I would've found it!

LOl

SuperJETT
07-26-2005, 07:54 AM
I would've done the contrary,

Take the whole gas tank apart, take the wheels off, change the gas filter, remove the seats and install some fog lights before I would've found it!

LOl

LOL

I just hope that was the only leak, but I imagine it was or else it would be setting the large leak code.

Who knew network admins could work on cars? heh, I used to compete semi-pro in freestyle jetskiing, still ride a ton and build my skis/engines myself.

DSMLVR
07-26-2005, 08:09 AM
<<Take the whole gas tank apart, take the wheels off, change the gas filter, remove the seats and install some fog lights before I would've found it!>>

Hey, are you the guy who runs the auto repair shop in town? Sounds like something he would do.

Umer
07-28-2005, 01:31 AM
Hey, are you the guy who runs the auto repair shop in town? Sounds like something he would do.

LOL!!!!!!!! :lol:

SuperJETT
07-28-2005, 09:01 AM
Just to followup, so far the engine light hasn't gone out (and haven't bothered to disconnect the battery to clear it). However, since it only does the pressure test on cold startups, between 40-86F, 30-85% fuel, etc. there normally is only 1 chance/day for the test. We'll see how it does this morning when my wife goes out.

SuperJETT
07-30-2005, 05:41 PM
Well, the stupid light is still on.......

More checking to do. I may try to pressurize the system to 1psi or so but I'm not sure the system is sealed when it's off, is it?

SuperJETT
08-05-2005, 01:36 PM
Ok, it went out, after just over a week from my fix.

It's been out for 3 days now, we'll see if it stays out.

ElGeraldo
08-12-2005, 10:45 AM
At first, figured it was the gas cap, light cleared thanks to the dealer for free, then it reset the day after the next fillup and we were sure the cap was tight.

Hmmmm..... The engine light has just come on, on our '02 T&C 3.8l (48k5 miles). Checked the gas cap - tight. (How does it know, BTW? There are no switches on the gas cap. Is it a system pressure thing?)

Van's running fine. MPGs are where they usually are. Just did a 3800 mile road trip last week and got the oil changed when we got back. Light came on 2 days later.

Even if it was the gas cap thing, are you suggesting the PCM would remember that fault until cleared (or until the PCM forgets about it - my Haynes manual says 40 warm up cycles).

The little owners manual in the van suggests it could also be dodgy gasoline - What kind of fault code would that produce? Unfortunately, It's got 3/4 of a tank left, so won't be trying new gas for a couple of weeks. How long do you figure I can keep driving it around with the light on without breaking anything?

Debating whether to buy an OBD II scan tool; preferably a PC-based version. Definitely won't be taking it into the dealer unless the light starts flashing.

Haynes manual says you can get the fault code out by switching ignition key ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON and watching the light flash (much like those 'OneForAll' TV remotes). Tried that and it don't do nuffin'!

Anyone got any 'top tips'?

SuperJETT
08-12-2005, 11:37 AM
In a class, but will reply later.


Hmmmm..... The engine light has just come on, on our '02 T&C 3.8l (48k5 miles). Checked the gas cap - tight. (How does it know, BTW? There are no switches on the gas cap. Is it a system pressure thing?)

Van's running fine. MPGs are where they usually are. Just did a 3800 mile road trip last week and got the oil changed when we got back. Light came on 2 days later.

Even if it was the gas cap thing, are you suggesting the PCM would remember that fault until cleared (or until the PCM forgets about it - my Haynes manual says 40 warm up cycles).

The little owners manual in the van suggests it could also be dodgy gasoline - What kind of fault code would that produce? Unfortunately, It's got 3/4 of a tank left, so won't be trying new gas for a couple of weeks. How long do you figure I can keep driving it around with the light on without breaking anything?

Debating whether to buy an OBD II scan tool; preferably a PC-based version. Definitely won't be taking it into the dealer unless the light starts flashing.

Haynes manual says you can get the fault code out by switching ignition key ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON and watching the light flash (much like those 'OneForAll' TV remotes). Tried that and it don't do nuffin'!

Anyone got any 'top tips'?

mmahamm
08-12-2005, 02:58 PM
You can take it to Pep Boys and they will hook it up to a scanner for free.

SuperJETT
08-12-2005, 05:58 PM
Ok, yes it is a pressure (not vacuum as on some other manufacturers use) test that runs when the conditions are right.

Ambient temp 40-86F or so
cold start (engine temp within 10F of ambient)
fuel between 30-85%
atmospheric pressure "normal"
and probably some others I can't recall right now

Anyway, a valve switches position and the tank is pressurized. It will set a code for either a very small leak or large leak. On mine, I just take the key from OFF-ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON and leave it in the ON position. The odometer will display the codes then say DONE.

AMD Rules
08-12-2005, 06:15 PM
Off Topic (sorry):

SuperJETT... What is that picture in your avatar? I've been staring at it for a while trying to determine what it is, but not having much luck and I'm getting dizzy starting to see stars etc. Just curious...I'm sure it will be obvious once you tell me.

AMD Rules
08-12-2005, 06:25 PM
Errrr...never mind....found it as per image below :)

http://www.superjett.com/showimg.php?file=/Jet%20Ski%20stuff/SuperJETT%20ski%20pics/sub1.jpg

SuperJETT
08-12-2005, 07:18 PM
heh, that is me! doing a sub where I go about 10 feet under on my ski then come back up.
Here is a clip of me doing one: http://www.superjett.com/pictures/Jet%20Ski%20stuff/freestyle%20videos/index.php?path=&download=SuperJETT%20jump%20sub.mpeg

Now that I look at the avatar, I can see where it just looks like a bunch of random colors/etc.


Errrr...never mind....found it as per image below :)

http://www.superjett.com/showimg.php?file=/Jet%20Ski%20stuff/SuperJETT%20ski%20pics/sub1.jpg

ElGeraldo
08-12-2005, 11:08 PM
Thanks for the info. Where are you getting this from? Have you got the proper service manual?

...The odometer will display the codes then say DONE.
The Haynes Manual had it wrong. One ON/OFF cycle too few to display the codes.

On the 4th 'ON', a 'P' appeared after the word 'TRIP', then the odometer changed to dashes '------', then it said 'donE'. No numbers appeared at all, so does that mean there's nothing wrong with it? The MIL is still on. It's on when I switch the ignition on, goes off while cranking, then comes back on and stays on forever, as soon as the starter is released.

Does this mean I need to get a proper code scanner, or take it to the dreaded dealer? ...Or should I wait until I've run another tank of gas through it? What (if any) fault code would a cruddy tank of gas cause? (The user booklet cites this as a possible cause for the MIL to illuminate). :confused:

Any info is good info to me - the last car I owned was a 1993 Vauxhall Cavalier with an Isuzu turbo diesel in it. No electronics at all! EMP hardened by default!

AMD Rules
08-12-2005, 11:30 PM
If you didnt get any P codes before it said 'done', it means that whatever your MIL indicator light is triggering for, it is not likely on the list of 'standard' faults.

A loose or faulty gas cap is certainly a candidate, but I'd think it would throw a P code pertaining to leak detection.

The latest OBD code scanners are very expensive, and a quick check by the dealer should not be too much expense in comparison (or as mmahamm states you may find places that will scan it or free hoping you buy the parts to fix it at their shop).

I'd drive for a few more cycles, and see if it goes away. If not, then get it evaluated accordingly.

ElGeraldo
08-13-2005, 03:14 PM
If you didnt get any P codes before it said 'done', it means that whatever your MIL indicator light is triggering for, it is not likely on the list of 'standard' faults.Dang! :mad:

A loose or faulty gas cap is certainly a candidate, but I'd think it would throw a P code pertaining to leak detection.I think you're right. A loose gas cap would constitute a leak in the EVAP system.

The latest OBD code scanners are very expensive, and a quick check by the dealer should not be too much expense in comparison...They're not that bad, actually (been doing some research). Equus 3030 is only $99, and the AutoXray Code Scout 1500 is only $149. That one's upgradable, and you can can connect it up to a PC for an extra $80. Both will do CAN systems, which are mandatory by 2008 (or so I've read).

I'm a bit of a gadget geek, so I want one - but up until last Tuesday morning, I didn't need one!

(or as mmahamm states you may find places that will scan it or free hoping you buy the parts to fix it at their shop).

I'd drive for a few more cycles, and see if it goes away. If not, then get it evaluated accordingly.I need to get the wheel alignment done, so I'll get the dealer to do that ($50) and hope they throw in a code scan for free. That technique usually works!

Thanks for your advice, dudes.

ElGeraldo
08-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Took it to AutoZone just this evening. Young lady connected up an OBD-II scan tool and read the code. Would you believe, it was the old P0456 "Evaporative System very small leak" chestnut!:wacko:

Why on earth didn't the PCM show that on the odometer display, when I did the old ignition key ON/OFF 3 times thing?

SuperJETT - Where was that split pipe that you found? Under the air filter housing, you say?

Hokiefyd
08-17-2005, 08:12 AM
Took it to AutoZone just this evening. Young lady connected up an OBD-II scan tool and read the code. Would you believe, it was the old P0456 "Evaporative System very small leak" chestnut!:wacko:

Why on earth didn't the PCM show that on the odometer display, when I did the old ignition key ON/OFF 3 times thing?

Unfortunately, Chrysler won't let you see all the DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes). When you do the key on/off thing, that only shows the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) DTCs. In most cases, unless your instrument panel is acting up, you won't get any DTCs to show doing the key on/off thing. That's how I understand it anyway.

SuperJETT
08-17-2005, 08:23 AM
Yes, it's a short section that connects a rigid line to a plastic line going to the purge solenoid.

SuperJETT
08-17-2005, 11:40 AM
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=2140 has the pics of my tubing. I had to take the airbox out, but that's a 5 minute job.

ElGeraldo
08-17-2005, 11:45 AM
Unfortunately, Chrysler won't let you see all the DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes). When you do the key on/off thing, that only shows the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) DTCs. In most cases, unless your instrument panel is acting up, you won't get any DTCs to show doing the key on/off thing. That's how I understand it anyway.

What a crock. It would take their firmware engineer 5 minutes to make it so that it could tell you EXACTLY what was wrong with the PCM, TCM or anything else, via the odometer, or even better, the dot-matrix VF display on the overhead console. Why don't they... Because they're not a charity.

I wish you could put the overhead console in a 'car geek' mode, where it would tell you some of the useful operating parameters that the PCM/TCM know about, e.g. transmission fluid temp and the like. It narks me off that the tire pressure thing only tells me when they're flat, or about to pop. I wish it would tell me the actual pressure, like it does on my friend's 300M. If only one could do a firmware upgrade!

ElGeraldo
08-17-2005, 11:52 AM
Supposing it is this same piece of tubing, surely that's covered under the emissions system warranty? (Which I thought was far longer than the 3/36?)

If I find that's the problem, I'll try and get the dealer to replace it. Might as well get it done for free if I can.

SuperJETT
08-17-2005, 12:53 PM
Supposing it is this same piece of tubing, surely that's covered under the emissions system warranty? (Which I thought was far longer than the 3/36?)

If I find that's the problem, I'll try and get the dealer to replace it. Might as well get it done for free if I can.

It really took me a whole 15 minutes to find/replace it. That's much quicker/cheaper than driving to a dealer and having to wait an hour or two for something as easy as this. (provided it's the same problem)

The emissions warranty is longer, but I think only covers parts, not labor.

Hokiefyd
08-17-2005, 01:41 PM
I wish you could put the overhead console in a 'car geek' mode, where it would tell you some of the useful operating parameters that the PCM/TCM know about!

There are only two cars that I know of that do that -- Cadillacs and Corvettes. On my '97 Seville, if I press and hold the OFF and PASS WARMER buttons on the HVAC control, the DIC (Driver Information Center) will start to cycle through all the DTCs...PCM, IPC, ABS, TCS, etc. It cycles through all the systems and once it displays all the codes, it gives you a prompt "PCM?" From here, you use the fan control button (UP = yes, DOWN = no) to answer the prompts. If you answer YES to "PCM?", it goes into the PCM menu, where you can retrieve AND clear PCM codes. Answer NO, and the system goes onto the next prompt "IPC?" This is where you can program features (like daytime running lights, HVAC afterblow feature, etc) and read actual IPC inputs (IPC = Instrument Panel Cluster). You can see the actual unbuffered fuel level reading, the on/off state of almost every single switch in the car (blinkers, hazards, dash pot, etc). You can also do diagnostics, like turning on or off any of the eight fuel injectors to isolate a problem with the engine.

Cadillac has had this level of user interaction with the OBD system for a long time (way back into the early '80s). I'm not sure how long the Corvette's had it, but those two GM vehicles offer the only true user interactivity with the OBD system that I know of. There may be other vehicles by now that you can do that with, I don't know.

It's one of those features that you'll never see in the dealer brochure, but it's one of those value-added things that comes with a particlar line of vehicle.

ElGeraldo
08-18-2005, 11:34 AM
Cadillac has had this level of user interaction with the OBD system for a long time (way back into the early '80s). I'm not sure how long the Corvette's had it, but those two GM vehicles offer the only true user interactivity with the OBD system that I know of. There may be other vehicles by now that you can do that with, I don't know.That's totally cool. I think all cars with a suitable display should have it built into the firmware. The information is all there; it just needs bringing out. Speaking as a software engineer, it's a fairly trivial job. I think this enhancement would be a selling point for many people.

Hokiefyd
08-18-2005, 12:45 PM
That's totally cool. I think all cars with a suitable display should have it built into the firmware. The information is all there; it just needs bringing out.

Be glad you even have the INST MPG readout on your van. Many from the 2002-2003 period onward don't even have that. Ours just has AVG MPG...no stop on the digital "merry-go-round" menu cycle for INST MPG. Who knows why...it was there before...how much money could they have possibly saved by deliberately DELETING a software feature (that was already written) from the system? :confused:

Even my parents' 2005 Grand Cherokee Limited can't tell you the instant mpg...only average since last reset.

ElGeraldo
08-20-2005, 02:52 PM
Yes, it's a short section that connects a rigid line to a plastic line going to the purge solenoid.Had a quick look around the air filter housing area, and there it was. The rigid plastic pipe going to the purge solenoid is interrupted by a small valve with a green cap on it. The valve is joined to the rigid pipe by two short sections of 5/16" rubber tubing, which was split to pieces!

A quick trip to Autozone and $0.00 later (she gave me 9" of hose for free!) and the leak is hopefully fixed. Just got to wait for the light to go out...

Thanks for all your help, guys - you've saved me a small fortune!

BTW, I did call the dealer, and the EVAP system is not covered by the emissions system warranty. Only the CAT and the PCM are.

ElGeraldo
08-30-2005, 06:10 PM
Still waiting for the MIL to go off. I could take it back to AutoZone and ask them to clear it, I suppose. According to SuperJETT's checklist (http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showpost.php?p=16701&postcount=11) I don't think it will be doing the EVAP test very often. It probably hasn't gone below 86F in my garage for the last 3 weeks, and the van only gets run twice a day.

Does it do the test only once, when you start it up, or does it do it continuously while you're driving?

SuperJETT - Where did you read about this set of conditions from?

AMD Rules
08-30-2005, 07:01 PM
Unfortunately, Chrysler won't let you see all the DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes). When you do the key on/off thing, that only shows the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) DTCs. In most cases, unless your instrument panel is acting up, you won't get any DTCs to show doing the key on/off thing. That's how I understand it anyway.

That is not entirly true Jason. It definitely should give diagnostic codes for the on/off key cycle. In fact, I believe the instrument cluster diagnostic process is a different can of worms completely. I have had Pcodes from my '02 and '05 vans (one was an evap leak, the other the infamous gas cap) and my '01 Dakota as well.

I agree though that it is only a glimpse into the possible DTC , and may not -always- show active recent codes, as was witnessed by ElGeraldo.

Hokiefyd
08-30-2005, 08:53 PM
AMD, that's how I understood it, but I could certainly be wrong. I coulda swore I read somewhere that the key on/off shows IPC DTCs only, but that may not be the case.

willperk
09-17-2005, 07:23 PM
That is not entirly true Jason. It definitely should give diagnostic codes for the on/off key cycle. In fact, I believe the instrument cluster diagnostic process is a different can of worms completely. I have had Pcodes from my '02 and '05 vans (one was an evap leak, the other the infamous gas cap) and my '01 Dakota as well.

I agree though that it is only a glimpse into the possible DTC , and may not -always- show active recent codes, as was witnessed by ElGeraldo.
My '01 GC Sport is presently displaying 3 P-codes upon doing the ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON key dance ......

P1684 BATTERY DISCONECT .... Some say you will always have this code displayed 1st if there are other codes set, and that it is really an indicator of the 'start' of the codes.

P0135 1/1 02 HEATER SENSOR FAILURE ...... I've had this code displayed since early May ..... have not had it fixed due to not knowing whether it's really the htr element or faulty wiring ...... The htr failure has little effect on performance ...... it only delays by a few minutes the engine controls going into the 'closed loop' mode.

P0456 EVAP LEAK MONITOR SMALL LEAK DETECTED ......
This code has been set only in the last few days - I discovered it yesterday. Today, I inspected the gas cap, wiped it (dust) off with a clean shop towel, and then put a thin film of olive oil on the o-ring seal. If it is still setting this code next week, I'll have my local mechanic check the tubes under the air filter housing ...... I'm in a wheelchair, and only do limited 'fluids checking' service.

BTW - from the 2001 POWERTRAIN DIAGNOSTICS PROCEDURES MANUAL .......

P0442 EVAP LEAK MONITOR MEDIUM DETECTED
P0455 EVAP LEAK MONITOR LARGE DETECTED
P0456 EVAP LEAK MONITOR SMALL DETECTED

...When monitored and set conditions:
.....When monitored: Immediately after a cold start, with
.....battery/ambient temp. btwn 40F and 90F and
.....coolant temp. within 10F of battery/ambient.

...Set Conditions:
.....P0442 (Med.) If there is a leak larger than 0.040" and
.......smaller than 0.080" in the evaporative system.
.....P0455 (Large) If there is a leak larger than 0.080" in
........the evaporative system.
.....P0456 (Small) If there is a leak larger than 0.020" and
........smaller than 0.040" in the evaporative system.

...Possible Causes:
.....Confirmed Leak in the EVAP SYSTEM .....
.....Intermittent LDP MONITOR Failure
........LDP = leak detection pump

-- willperk

ElGeraldo
10-07-2005, 03:02 PM
Still waiting for the MIL to go off...Hurrah! It went off! I fixed the leak on 20th August, and the light finally went off around the 1st October.

I firmly believe this is because the ambient temperature hasn't been below 90F round these parts until then; thus preventing the PCM from doing its EVAP leak test.

I was just about to dive under the van again, and start looking for more split hoses. Luckily I procrastinated and went for a drive to Costco - the first time I'd driven the van for a few days. I noticed the distinct lack of the "Bing!" sound, a couple of seconds after starting, and checked the light cluster above the gauges. No MIL!

Thanks for saving me a fortune, guys! :headbange

SuperJETT
10-07-2005, 05:28 PM
Sweet!!!!!

patforum
04-20-2006, 12:13 AM
Thanks for this posting and the pictures of the split hose...very helpful. My 2001 T&C MIL has been on for several months due to the P0442 and P0455 DTC's and now I need it to pass emissions inspection before the end of the month. Took it to a mechanic and he couldn't find any broken hoses (neither could I). However, just checked the hose under the air filter and sure enough, split and frayed through exactly like the picture. Will fix it tomorrow and hope for the best. Thanks again for taking the time to post. Sure saved me a lot of time and money.

SuperJETT
04-21-2006, 08:44 AM
Thanks for this posting and the pictures of the split hose...very helpful. My 2001 T&C MIL has been on for several months due to the P0442 and P0455 DTC's and now I need it to pass emissions inspection before the end of the month. Took it to a mechanic and he couldn't find any broken hoses (neither could I). However, just checked the hose under the air filter and sure enough, split and frayed through exactly like the picture. Will fix it tomorrow and hope for the best. Thanks again for taking the time to post. Sure saved me a lot of time and money.

Very cool, glad it helped someone.

patforum
04-28-2006, 11:55 PM
It did for sure. It's been over a week, the CEL is is still off and it did pass the emissions inspection (which is nothing more than a check for DTC codes). So problem solved!!

gregcm
05-07-2006, 05:45 PM
I had this problem last week. The hose that connects to this long plastic tube (comes from fuel tank area) to the charcoal looking canister was all cracked and brittle. Found this thread. Had to order the hose, took 3 mins to replace. Local auto parts wouldn't clear the code, so battery off for 30 mins. Reconneted battery, check engine light off, drove around for 1 week. Took it for safety/inspection. Passed! :)

Your thread saved me a bunch of time.

I attached a pic so it might be helpful to others.

gregcm
05-07-2006, 05:46 PM
You can see the hose on the left where it connects to the canister is cracked alot.

Cass
05-16-2006, 06:06 PM
How long do you figure I can keep driving it around with the light on without breaking anything?
You can drive it forever this way without breaking anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Check Engine Lamp is mandated by law to indicate a leak in the evaporation recovery system because it means you may be venting a small amount of gasoline fumes into the air, and thus "polluting." It will most likely pass emissions too, except thet the illuminated Check Engine Lamp may get you an automatic fail. I'm currently dealing with an evaporation system vacuum leak in my 2002 T&C. It's irritating to drive with the Check Engine Lamp on (PO455 code), but I'm searchng for the leak on a steady basis. You can relax knowing that you're doing no harm to the engine. (I responded to this post quite late, so everything may be fine with you now. I hope so!)

gnuhcw
07-20-2006, 01:29 AM
Are these P-codes "standard" in T&C or even in the auto-industry? In other words, in my 06 model (less than 2 week new with 250 miles), PO455 means exactly the same as 05 or older, doesn't it?

Thanks,

gnu.

Hokiefyd
07-20-2006, 08:42 AM
GNU, yes. OBD-II (On Board Diagnostics, gen II) is standard across the auto industry. Every passenger vehicle since 1996 uses this system. Prior to that was OBD-I, and was started in the 1980s with the advent of computer control. But since different auto makers were using their own systems, the regime was standardized in 1996 with OBD-II.

HAPPY_RANGER_GUY
07-20-2006, 10:56 AM
Every passenger vehicle since 1996 uses this system. Prior to that was OBD-I, and was started in the 1980s with the advent of computer control. But since different auto makers were using their own systems, the regime was standardized in 1996 with OBD-II.

Don't forget though, some 1995 vehicles were also OBD-II, especially California vehicles because that state required adherence to the new standard before the rest of the U.S.

For example, my 1995 Ranger...manufactured in June 1995 is fully OBD-II compliant even though I have to tell my code scanner that it's a 1996 model.

T.

SAWGRASS3
01-15-2007, 11:12 AM
JUST AS DESCRIBED THIS TOOK ABOUT 15 MINUTES TO DO THIS WEEKEND.
AUTOPART STORE CHARGED ABOUT 1.00 FOR THE HOSE AND IT WAS A PIECE OF CAKE.
THANKS FOR THE TIME SPENT TO FIGURE THIS ONE OUT.
VERY MUCH APPRECEATED.
:thumb:

IAfarmer
01-15-2007, 11:11 PM
What size is the hose, or is it a cheap replacement part? I can cut hose to fit. I filled mine with form a gasket and it sealed back up. The light went out.

Thanks.

SuperJETT
07-20-2007, 09:29 AM
I'm glad this thread has helped some people.

Well, last night the engine light came on. P0455, gross leak! I just did the upstream O2 sensor a couple of weeks ago along with plugs/wires/oil/etc and noticed the hoses/tubes on the leak detection pump looked pretty bad. I guess one let go, or maybe the LDP diaphragm itself did.

rangercreek
07-21-2007, 05:54 PM
My 2003 sprung a leak on the small hose under the air cleaner box because of stress on the rubber tube due to the two "pipes" being badly out of alignment. Jim

SuperJETT
07-22-2007, 10:22 PM
I cleared the codes with a battery disconnect, then we went for a drive and it was a 'good trip' so it should have been tested, and no MIL light, so I guess that took care of it.

It was the 5/8" hose between the leak detection pump LDP and the unit right behind it. $2.

I really wish Chrysler would use better hoses, this is kinda silly. This was almost 2 years to the day from me starting this thread because of the 'very small' leak.

SuperJETT
07-23-2007, 11:25 PM
Light is still out, so that must have been it.

This was the source of my leak. 5/8" hose and hose clamps took care of it. It's right under the driver's seat.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1194/881244788_82c429fd42_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=881244788&size=l)


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1162/881244606_496471926a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=881244606&size=l)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1212/881244888_011de3b157_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=881244888&size=l)

sheldon!
07-24-2007, 01:14 AM
Thank You :ThumbsUp:
Great photos always help!!:thumb:

kcluskey
08-05-2007, 06:16 PM
SuperJETT:

I have the same codes P0442 and P0455 on my 2001 T&C, and a P1684 too. I looked under the air cleaner box (removed it) and could not find the piece of hose you are referring to located there... can you try and describe in a little more detail where it is for me?

Thanks
Kcluskey

SuperJETT
08-05-2007, 07:16 PM
After removing the airbox, there is a 2" piece (pics are on first page of this thread) of maybe 3/8" rubber hose connecting a steel line to a plastic line. The steel line is flared outward and that is what caused the cracking, or the fact that Chrysler used cheap rubber.

JCamasto
08-05-2007, 09:24 PM
Cheap rubber, yes. (I almost thought you meant the white wall tires!)

-Jim

zl900
08-08-2007, 08:05 PM
Hi

I replaced the 2 little hoses under the air box and every thing was fine. Today code p0455 showed up. I was wondering what the hose size is at the
purge solenoid. It looks like the 2 pipes go into a one piece hose. Can I use 2 hoses on it?

Great site by the way.

John

tmac
12-14-2007, 10:30 PM
I had that problem on my 2001 van. I replaced the valve that is connected to the hose coming from the gas tank. It's about 4 inches long,tubed shaped with a domed top & is in a vertical position. A very good mechanic I know told me those valves had a history of leaking. It solved my problem!

Gino45
12-17-2007, 07:05 PM
Tmac,

Would you happen to have a picture or part number of the valve that you replaced. I've taken my 01 van to the dealer once and to an independent mechanic twice and still have the dreaded small and large evap leak codes.

kvzeyde
01-10-2008, 05:11 AM
Thanks for all the help. The search function lead me to this thread and I found my leak in a hose by the cannister. The MIL is now off after I replaced the hose and disconnected the battery for a few minutes.

When searching for your leak keep in mind it can be anywhere along the length of hoses, lines, and connectors front to back.

MacDaddy
01-12-2008, 12:18 AM
........EMP hardened by default!


Now there's something I haven't heard in 20 years........lucky guy......you'll have something to drive after the big one. Let's hope it never comes to that.

sorry about hijacking the thread.

BadDNA
01-24-2008, 08:11 AM
Has anybody put together a list of the locations and sizes of hose that are the common culprits? I've got to get a look at mine this weekend and something like that might be handy. If nobody has one yet, I'll likely document things as I go through them and then throw the info up here.

Gasman1979
01-28-2008, 01:00 AM
I has that pronlem on our 02 T&C and it turned out that there is a "cannister" lookin thing under the car on the driver's side with a hose runnin out the bottom...I can't recall the proper name for it but it was a vent of some sort...Anyway, I put the van on my dad's smoke machine and it was commin out of the tube on bottom of the cannister...I replace it and the light stayed off till I traded it in 2 years later....If it comes back on you may look into that little doo-hickey...

stuemany
03-13-2008, 11:56 AM
i have a small evap leak on my 01 van so to get it inspected i had a friend smoke test and found it was the canister leaking under the driverside firewall area. ihave yet to replace as the code erases and stays off for a long time. i was able to pass inspection after 1 day of driving. if your lucky you can find a mechanic with a smoke machine in your area. it took 10 minutes.

97K15004WD
03-13-2008, 12:42 PM
How to make your own....

http://teamzr1.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=563#Post563

chicago
03-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Well i found super jetts thread very useful especially with the pic i found the hose easy and yes it had a small leak so I replaced it unhooked the battery while i did it hooked it back up one cold start so far no light.

SuperJETT
03-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Well i found super jetts thread very useful especially with the pic i found the hose easy and yes it had a small leak so I replaced it unhooked the battery while i did it hooked it back up one cold start so far no light.

Which hose, the one on the leak detection pump under the driver seat or the one under the air box?

Either way, glad you found it easily.

BADMAN
04-20-2008, 05:06 PM
Found the culprit today thank you all Sam.

SuperJETT
04-20-2008, 05:10 PM
Found the culprit today thank you all Sam.

So where was your's?

BADMAN
04-21-2008, 10:02 AM
Under the trottle body it's a 3" piece of 5/16" hose.

Richard
04-21-2008, 12:44 PM
My dealer said it was the emissions pump under the car that the photos above show the hose running from. It was an expensive repair to change out this part.

ZombieDude
04-22-2008, 12:12 PM
I had previously replaced the 5/16th hoses leading to/from the valve but a few weeks later the light cam on again. I used my left over 5/16th hose and replace what else I could find. I think the hose cost me like $6 (I just grabbed a 5/16th "fuel line" that was on the rack)

Thought problem was fixed but then a week later light came on again. Looked under driver side and saw cracks in the 5/8 hose leading from tank to canister. The old hose was pre bent, so I just put in a gentle loop in the hose and tucked in up.

A week has passed and no light so I am hoping this $5 hose finally did the trick. Problem is I am not sure if all the crazy criteria for the test have been met yet. Only hose left is the long hose leading up and above the tank.

Anyone here know the size and length of that hose?

BADMAN
04-22-2008, 10:08 PM
Zombie my light came back on today too so i have to get back under that van again!!, I'm mad right now it took me a while to find this one hose. that hose you ask about I think it's around 8 feet that's just a guess though. SAM

samkblam
04-24-2008, 08:16 PM
Thanks to this forum I was able to find the problem and fix it. It was one of the hoses for the evap containers, but I would never have thought to look under the air box to make sure that those hoses were ok. If one of those had a hole, I would have been looking and looking. Thanks to those who make this forum rock.

BADMAN
05-26-2008, 11:21 PM
Happy No More Codes Yea!!!

Dale2006
06-30-2008, 09:35 PM
I too have the dreaded 442/445. and yes...the hose under the air cleaner was bad. It took about four days for my scanner to show the IM for the evap system ready again.

minngo4s
07-02-2008, 09:12 AM
Too bad I found this thread too late! I took the van to the dealer last week and he charged me 157 for the hose replacement! And now the MIL is back on!! So I am going to do the inspection myself tonight and see if I can find another leak! It is the the P0442 code - and the gas cap seems to be in fine condition. I am approaching 100,000 miles on my 04 - she needs to last longer!!!

SuperJETT
07-02-2008, 10:11 AM
Which one did they replace? It seems the one under the airbox and the one under the driver seat are the most common ones. Check whichever they didn't replace.

BTW, we have ~106,000 miles on our's now and it's running like a champ. You can probably find the problem and fix it yourself for under $10 and be 100% again.


Too bad I found this thread too late! I took the van to the dealer last week and he charged me 157 for the hose replacement! And now the MIL is back on!! So I am going to do the inspection myself tonight and see if I can find another leak! It is the the P0442 code - and the gas cap seems to be in fine condition. I am approaching 100,000 miles on my 04 - she needs to last longer!!!

veaumj
08-14-2008, 12:54 AM
thank you thank you thank you!!!!! 10 minutes prob solved - I had small and large leak codes, my hoses looked like streamers. I spend hours trying to find this before and this was sooo simple!

SuperJETT
08-14-2008, 08:52 AM
thank you thank you thank you!!!!! 10 minutes prob solved - I had small and large leak codes, my hoses looked like streamers. I spend hours trying to find this before and this was sooo simple!

Cool deal!

tony0707
08-14-2008, 12:05 PM
Hi I Have A 1999 T&c- 3rd Generation---do I Have The Same Hose System That They Are Talking About Here Or Is Mine Different ? Can My Van Have The Same Problem ? I Know This Is A Vacuum Leak Problem-but What Does It Effect-must Be The Fuel System As The Air Cleaner Box And Gas Cap Are Talked About In A Few Posts-thank You

d.foobar
09-28-2008, 01:04 PM
I had this problem last week. The hose that connects to this long plastic tube (comes from fuel tank area) to the charcoal looking canister was all cracked and brittle. Found this thread. Had to order the hose, took 3 mins to replace. Local auto parts wouldn't clear the code, so battery off for 30 mins. Reconneted battery, check engine light off, drove around for 1 week. Took it for safety/inspection. Passed! :)

Your thread saved me a bunch of time.

I attached a pic so it might be helpful to others.

Greg,

Found the same problem with this hose. Curious, how much did the dealer part cost. I bought some 5/8" heater hose from Advance Auto and put it in. Hope this won't be badly affected by the fuel vapors.

Thanks for the thread.

larryd5
09-28-2008, 05:10 PM
I also had the small leak code recently. I looked at the small hose that runs from one black box to the other under the drivers seat. Found that the factory clamps were plastic. All of them were broken. Replaced them with metal hose clamps. No more codes. The hose looked fine on my vehicle ( 01 T&C ) Just cheap plastic clamps.

Trpshoot
09-29-2008, 06:47 PM
i would've done the contrary,

take the whole gas tank apart, take the wheels off, change the gas filter, remove the seats and install some fog lights before i would've found it!

Lol

lmao!

handyjanas
01-07-2009, 02:20 PM
I have had a simular problem for almost a year and about $1200.00 dollars spent with the problem still poping up. The last time in December the dealer mechnic replace a hose and a purge valve. Three weeks later the light is back on with the po440 code. Can anyone help me find a way to correct this? It is on an o4 Town and country. I have checked for cracked hoses where I can see. Another dealer wants to replace the evap. pump. Need some help please.

handyjanas
01-07-2009, 10:00 PM
I found the pictures of some of the leaks. I went out and checked the places and found one of the hose to the box under the driver set with no clamp. I put a metal hose clamp on the hose and cleared the code. Hope this will last, Thanks SUPERJETT for the pictures.

handyjanas
01-10-2009, 01:41 AM
Well it has been a couple of days sense I cleared the code off. It's back!!!!! I guess I will look some more. Can the evap. system be pressurerised?

sselander
01-11-2009, 03:27 PM
When I received that message I replaced all of the hoses near the canister as well the
vent valve. these are the parts I ordered, it includes that "u" shaped hose near the canister. This is a 2001 Chrysler T&C 3.8.

Ordered from wholesalemopar.com

Once I cleared it, the problem has never come back

I also replaced the plastic clamps with steel ones.


Items Ordered:
Item: Emission system, Emission components, Hose, To vent valve, To vent valve - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03 - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03
Price: $2.19
Tax: $0.00
Qty: 1
Total: $2.19

Item: Emission system, Emission components, Hose, Load, Load - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03 - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03
Price: $1.94

Item: Emission system, Emission components, Hose, Frnt pmp to rr pmp, Frnt pmp to rr pmp - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03 - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03
Price: $3.25

Item: Emission system, Emission components, Hose, Purge, Purge - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03 - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03
Price: $2.44

Item: Emission system, Emission components, Vent valve, Vent valve - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03 - 3.3 & 3.8 liter 2001-03
Price: $6.75
-----------------------------
Items Total: $16.57

kick43vt
01-24-2009, 02:11 PM
I have a 2001 T&C 3.8L. I got the PO4??? codes associated with small and large evap leaks. From the great information in this forum, I've replaced a few hoses that may have been the problem. While doing that, I ran into two things that I could use some help with.

The photos below depict the areas in question. In the first, there are two bolts that are missing and I am looking to find if anyone knows the size of the bolts.

The second pic shows a hose that I'm trying to find a part number for.

Any info would be great.

sselander
01-24-2009, 11:31 PM
Please see my previous post. I just ordered all 4 hoses in the catalog, and for the rest got stock hose from the auto supply place

If you go to one of the online dealerships that uses the trademotion catalog.
(wholesalemopar or wyckoff)

Go to the emission system section, emission components, hose
You will see 4 hoses listed:

ftnt pmp to rr pmp
load
purge
to vent valve

cllick on one of them, and you will see an illustration

They do not show the part numbers

12) Vent valve
13) Hose To vent valve
14) Hose Frnt pmp to rr pmp
15) Hose Purge
16) Hose Load

I have the part numbers, but I don't know which one goes to which hose
I just ordered all 4 hoses as well as the vent valve and put them in.

tnclito
05-25-2009, 11:26 PM
thnx jetsski and the rest for these thread i finally got rid of the po455 and po442 codes.Ihope i did it this time by just replacing all the 5/16" hose under the air cleaner.
thnx a lot guys.

Kscha41
05-26-2009, 09:46 PM
I had the same broken hose as the op except mine was for a large evap leak. I found some cracked hoses not far from there and I figured it would be easier if I took the air box out. Boy am I glad I did, mine was even worse than the op's. I found that as soon as I took the box off. I would of never saw it with it on.

jgbat
07-07-2009, 03:00 AM
Too bad I found this thread too late! I took the van to the dealer last week and he charged me 157 for the hose replacement! And now the MIL is back on!! So I am going to do the inspection myself tonight and see if I can find another leak! It is the the P0442 code - and the gas cap seems to be in fine condition. I am approaching 100,000 miles on my 04 - she needs to last longer!!!

I'd take it back to the dealer and tell them it's not fixed. I had to do this once with another issue. They didn't even charge me, even though they had to replace another part. They told me it was fixed and I called them on it when it wasn't.

ajjoe@rediffmail.com
07-31-2009, 05:39 PM
I got the Check engine Light and checked it to be P0442, P0168.
Changed the fuel cap. Light came up again. Then read this post and removed the air filter unit and found the 2 inch long 15/8 rubber tube near the A/C compressor. I have replaced the tube and reset the code. Drove few hundred miles. Light has not come up again. Hope it stays that way. :)

Thanks a lot for the valuable information posted.

2001 chrysler Voyager 67000 miles
2003 Honda Accord 65000 miles

jayjay66@comcast.net
10-04-2009, 10:54 PM
The hose under the air box was easy to find. I think the damage it has was from my removal - I had to use pliers. There are a ton of inquiries and stories of people finding hose in many places. I'm looking for a consolidated list, hopefully with diagrams. Did anyone see anything like this on the forum or in any other publically accessible spot?

Thanks much.

shipo
10-05-2009, 07:16 AM
The hose under the air box was easy to find. I think the damage it has was from my removal - I had to use pliers. There are a ton of inquiries and stories of people finding hose in many places. I'm looking for a consolidated list, hopefully with diagrams. Did anyone see anything like this on the forum or in any other publically accessible spot?

Thanks much.

As a general rule, these schematics are Copyrighted by Chrysler and any "publically accessible spot" will be in violation of said copyright. With that said, any and all links to such sites posted here on this forum will be quickly removed.

Buzzworth
10-08-2009, 08:12 PM
Hello,
newbie here (first post)

Fist off I would like to say thank you and WHAT a GREAT SITE!!!!! :thumb:

I have a Chrysler 2001 Voyager LX with a 3.3 engine 95,000 miles

I am getting codes p0442 and p0455 I have found the canisters under the drivers side
all hoses look good or even replaced (new clamps)
I removed the air cleaner box to look for more bad hoses and found nothing
I can not find the talked about 5/16 hoses or plastic line or the purge solenoid
I do not see anything under there like that
are you all talking about the 3.8
can someone please help me find this possible hose problem

SuperJETT
01-22-2010, 10:51 AM
Another update on our van: haven't had another code, so I guess those 2 were the main problem areas on our van, so far.

Tonight or tomorrow I'm doing the water pump/tensioner/serpentine/radiator hoses---the van is at 135k so I'm sure it's overdue on those items.

dprost
03-06-2010, 04:15 PM
Starting to gather info for EVAP small leak code. Noticed good info on this forrum especially for JETT - does air box just pop off after removing (1) bolt attached to front of frame or is there an additional hidden bolt that needs to come out that I cant find? Thanks ahead of time-

dpr

noname
03-18-2010, 12:46 AM
my apologies in advance if I'm not supposed to top this thread but I felt like I needed to say this. I have taken car advice -- or any advice for that matter from the internet. Yet I stumble across this forum a few days ago and am able to clear my check engine light on the very next drive. It came on in mid summer of '09 and i spent so much time and money replacing unnecessary parts. fuel pumps and hoses that probably didn't even need to be

superjett and anyone else that included pictures in there posts as well as those with detailed explanations .... i am eternally grateful. you do not understand how easy it was to fix with your guys' help. took out my air filter and housing and saw frayed tubing and let out a sigh of relief it's a **** of a feeling knowing i'm going to pass emissions in april i dreaded that light being on one more day

thank you all a million times.

SuperJETT
03-18-2010, 07:42 AM
Awesome!

dck
04-03-2010, 03:53 PM
My 2001 Voyager threw a P0456 code about two months ago and I tightened the gas cap and cleared the code. Well yesterday it threw another P0456, so I pulled the air cleaner and airbox and found the cracked hose up against the firewall. New hose cost $1.30 and I was done with the whole job in about 45 minutes including the trip to AutoZone for the hose.:)

Jeekinz
04-05-2010, 11:45 AM
Had a quick look around the air filter housing area, and there it was. The rigid plastic pipe going to the purge solenoid is interrupted by a small valve with a green cap on it. The valve is joined to the rigid pipe by two short sections of 5/16" rubber tubing, which was split to pieces!

A quick trip to Autozone and $0.00 later (she gave me 9" of hose for free!) and the leak is hopefully fixed. Just got to wait for the light to go out...

Thanks for all your help, guys - you've saved me a small fortune!

BTW, I did call the dealer, and the EVAP system is not covered by the emissions system warranty. Only the CAT and the PCM are.

I just came across this site, great info! My 01 Voyager had the same exact problem. :thumb: Thanks for the info!

aspen
05-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Big time thanks to SuperJett.

I doubt I would have found the cracked hose under the air filter housing without your help.

My 2002 van kept giving me the P0456 small EVAP leak. With only 49K miles and living in a Southern environment, I was surprised the hose had cracked the way it did.

When I first checked the EVAP hoses under the van, all the hoses were in great shape. So I had low expectations that the hose in the better protected area under the air filter would be the culprit. In fact, I was ready to order a new vent valve since it is relatively inexpensive and was listed as one of the possible problem areas. But since checking under the airbox only required removing one bolt and about 5 minutes of time, I went ahead and checked it.

I was pleasantly surprised to find the hose cracked at both ends and in multiple spots in the center of the hose.

Thanks again.

BlackOnBlackCobra96
05-19-2010, 11:52 PM
SuperJETT - I think I have the same issue. Does the tube under the air filter housing just pull off?

dck
05-20-2010, 11:07 AM
Yes, the hose is just a slip fit onto the rigid tubing it connects to. Mine was a little tough to pull off, and to make the new one easier to install I used a little soapy water on the hose.

greenhornet
05-23-2010, 10:06 PM
we had the small leak code. removed gas cap, submerged and washed in hot water and liquid dish soap, followed by two rinses. Used shop vac to dry. Reinstalled cleared code. Solution good for two years so far.

genghis1
05-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Thanks for all the great info, I'm battling this problem right now with my 02 T&C 3.8L

moro_7777
06-07-2010, 12:43 PM
Got the same code P0456 on a 2003 Dodge 3.3 with 120,000Km - looked under the airbox and sure enough the 5/16 hose elbow indicated in the pictures posted by SuperJETT was cracked. Went to a Dodge dealer in Toronto and asked for the part however they have only the whole assembly (two hoses that go to the cannister and the valve) for $65+tax - mind you they have redesigned it so now the elbow is metal an probably won't break again. Did not bother to buy it for that much and just fixed the existing part with plumber quickfix tape for pressure systems. Removed the battery neutral and switched the ignition on-off to reset the code. Went in for emission testing and passed.
THANK YOU SuperJETT!!!! Especially for taking the time to post the pictures you are a god of this forum!!!

Dangermouse
06-16-2010, 05:43 PM
I'll just add my thanks to this thread also.

My check engine light came on a month ago, just before the emmissions were due, with both a "Small" and "Very Small" leak. I had found the "Small" leak where one of th small diameter hard plastic pipes on the RHS of the valve cover had become brittle and snapped. And the very small one was just where this thread said it would be.''

I tried some 5/8 hose first, as that's what I had handy, but the light came on agan in 250 miles (slightly too loose I guess), so I bought some 5/16 and now all is well. (Although the car is now sluggish to shift down, which probably isn't related)


2 thumbs up.

wireman
06-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Another satisfied customer, hose under the air box was cracked. 15ish minute job in the heat.

SuperJETT
06-21-2010, 02:16 PM
50% of all money saved due to this thread may be sent via Pony Express to me, in small bills please.

Glad it's still helping people.

Tjabo
06-29-2010, 09:22 AM
LOL, this is funny! I've been chasing this stupid code around on my wife's '03 T&C for a long time now, and I finally have hope of finding it! I'll report back with my results.

Tjabo
06-30-2010, 08:47 AM
Wow, I suspect this is the answer to the evap code on my wife's van!

Last night I checked it out, and sure enough, the suspect piece of hose under the air cleaner box was shot! Turns out that the "very small leak" code had turned into a gross leak over the past few months while we were simply driving around with this code.

At any rate, since the steel tube on the down side of the torn hose is a bit too big for a proper fit with 5/16" hose (part of the problem with this piece of hose I imagine), I replaced it with a short chunk of 3/8" fuel injection hose. The 3/8" hose didn't fit tight enough for my satisfaction onto the 5/16" barbed plastic tubing that slides into the top of the suspect hose, so I put a little spring clamp on that. I think that tightened it up enough, but time will tell!

So, I cleared the codes and now it's time to wait the ordinary 3 or 4 days until the test gets run. . .

Oh yeah, this same 5/16" tube runs forward to a port of some sort with a screw-on cap. The port has barbed plastic 5/16" ends on it that connect to the plastic tubes on either side with 5/16" rubber hose. They were cracked also, so I replaced them with 5/16" fuel injection hose.

Tjabo
07-13-2010, 10:20 AM
Two weeks later and the code hasn't come back! ! ! Yippee!

Thank you SuperJETT, I think this took care of my issue!

gogia
08-19-2010, 04:18 PM
I replaced under air filter all those 5/16" small pipes but unfortunately my code came back, next step i am thinking is to look under the van near charcoal canister all those pipes and replacing them with new ones and also new metal clips every where hopefull it will fix the problem, for 2001 Dodge caravan,, 3.3 ltr,

One more info for folks:
In Toronto, if you have 0442 & 0455 codes, you still can go for emission in Toronto, it will not fail because od these codes,,I just did mine and Mechanic told me it will not bother emmission test and my van passed the emission test while my check engine light is there with these 2 codes,Thanks

asjwalsh
10-12-2010, 12:44 PM
Well I have had the code for 3 months now. I replaced the hoses under the drivers seat as they were suspect. All other hoses people have mentioned appear to be in perfect shape. Anybody got any other ideas?

RIP
10-12-2010, 07:28 PM
If this link is already in this thread, my applogies. This video shows how the pros use a smoke machine to troubleshoot EVAP leaks. The important thing is it shows all the usual places a leak pops up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSn0ljUS6kI

Tjabo
10-12-2010, 07:28 PM
Did you actually change the suspect one under the airbox? Mine was shot from being jammed on the approximately 3/8" hard line that it doesn't really fit properly, so I suspect this is a VERY common leak point when that hose starts to dry out a bit.

asjwalsh
10-12-2010, 10:47 PM
No, I didn't change it since it all looked fine, but having watched the youtube video I will revisit that spot! Thanks guys.

Mopar Madness
11-08-2010, 08:06 AM
...shows all the usual places a leak pops up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSn0ljUS6kI

Perfect! I too have a 2002 GC (Sport) with the 3.3 engine with about the same mileage (106k). I had the small evap leak code for about a year and more recently the large evap leak code. Based on the information in this forum thread, I looked under the van and found one of the plastic hose clamps had broken. I replaced it with metal but then inspected the topside of the hose using a mirror. It was split. Replaced the split hose with nine inches of 3/8 fuel hose and am hoping that will be end of the problem. I did not see any other obvious splits or broken clamps. GREAT FORUM, thanks to those who share and especially to those posting photos, illustrations, and VIDEO!

Mopar Madness
11-10-2010, 09:34 AM
BTW, what is the procedure for resetting the MIL by disconnecting the battery? Is there anything special that has to be done other that simply disconnecting to battery for a brief time? Thanks!

Tjabo
11-10-2010, 10:12 PM
I'm afraid I don't know how you do it on one of these vans. I got a decent scan tool for looking at ABS and trans codes, so I just use that. . .

andyg
11-10-2010, 10:44 PM
Just disconnect the battery, press the brake pedal to discharge any residual charge in the computers and then hook the battery back up.

Mopar Madness
11-30-2010, 10:03 AM
I know the smoke test is the best method of finding leaks in this evap system, but can the system be pressurized to check for leaks by listening or by wetting the hoses with a soap solution? How much pressure can the system handle? What are the best points for pressurizing? Are there points that need to be plugged during testing?

The smoke generator must use some level of pressure to be effective. I could probably pressurize from the same location shown in the YouTube video for the smoke test. Near the battery box, there appears to be a schrader valve; could this be used for pressurizing with a hand pump?

Thanks in advance for your input!

asjwalsh
12-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Well, I finally replaced the pieces of hose under the air box. The light just came back on :angry1:

I need to find a smoke machine too! This is frustrating to say the least.

asjwalsh
01-02-2011, 09:53 AM
So I did a really meticulous job on the replaced hoses under the air filter box, cut the hoses longer than before and used small clamps to really seal it all up. I also ordered the hoses mentioned in an earlier post that are under the drivers seat, and used clamps with them as well. Now, two tanks of gas later the light is still out :biggrin: Still am waiting for the 'DING' as I drive along, but so far so good.

Tjabo
01-02-2011, 09:59 AM
That is great!

After months of driving, ours is still out too. The split "overly-stretched" hoses under the airbox were totally to blame for ours. Kudos again to the person who discovered it and wrote it up! ! !

sheldon!
01-04-2011, 01:33 AM
Just wanted to add my $2 (value adjusted for inflation).
I bought a gas cap at Autozone and the code went away for awhile. It came back so I bought another one.
It came back a month or so again so I ordered all the hoses from Dealer, bought new metal clamps, and spent the day installing them. The code came back.
Frustrated, I bought another cap, this time from the Dealer. Codes have been gone for two months. I think its fixed.
There is a difference in construction of the AutoZone cap and the Chrysler cap. The dealer's cap was heaver, better constructed and even came with the little rubber tether attached.
FWIW

Tjabo
01-04-2011, 07:56 AM
Very interesting stuff! ! !

Flavife
01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
I had a gas cap that the ratchet was weak and would not allow the cap to tighten and seal properly. I eliminated the weak ratchet by epoxing the gas cap and eliminated the slip/clicking and it has not given a MIL now for 5 years. It was cheaper than a new gas cap.

Frank
96 Grand Voyager retired
99 DGC Sport retired at 137K miles (still running fine for my friend)
07 T&C SWB with 30825 miles

Noxzema
01-04-2011, 10:15 AM
even cheaper fix.
After long searching for and replacing hoses etc. for the 'small leak' & buying 2 different aftermarket gas caps. I finally got the code to dissapear. I always suspected the gas cap was at fault so at desparate measure I tried using syran wrap around the gas cap to make a tight seal-- guess what works fine!!! No p456! yippee!!!!!!!!!! All should try that first to see if works for you! It created a nice seal. I would definitely now recommend the OEM cap now. Just gotta get myself to the dealership to get one but I really can't stomach going there...barf..

jgbat
01-04-2011, 09:11 PM
even cheaper fix.
After long searching for and replacing hoses etc. for the 'small leak' & buying 2 different aftermarket gas caps. I finally got the code to dissapear. I always suspected the gas cap was at fault so at desparate measure I tried using syran wrap around the gas cap to make a tight seal-- guess what works fine!!! No p456! yippee!!!!!!!!!! All should try that first to see if works for you! It created a nice seal. I would definitely now recommend the OEM cap now. Just gotta get myself to the dealership to get one but I really can't stomach going there...barf..

Oh come on... going to the dealer isn't that bad... but if you think it is, you can always order the OEM cap from www.mopar.com. :thumb:

dun4now
01-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Oh come on... going to the dealer isn't that bad... but if you think it is, you can always order the OEM cap from www.mopar.com (http://www.mopar.com). :thumb: Oh, I went to the dealer here in Victoria for a pulley shield and the parts counter guy guided me over to the service manager who proceeded to book me an appointment for an install. I walked back over to the parts guy and told him I want to install it myself I was just asking if I had to remove the tensioner to do it. Now the dealer in Calgary I never had a problem with. The parts guy would almost bend backwards to help me and it was appreciated. Different dealers different methods, you just have to be on your toes and not be intimidated by them, after all it is your money they are after.
I new one sales man who's philosophy was, it's his money in that guy's pocket that just walked in. LOL.
I only wish I knew you in person jgbat, you seem like a really helpful person.:beerchug:

jgbat
01-06-2011, 01:53 PM
I only wish I knew you in person jgbat, you seem like a really helpful person.:beerchug:

Thank you. I try. :)

hubbyofTCdriver
01-29-2011, 12:29 PM
Thanks for going to the trouble of making this thread OP. I was able to track down the hose and it was cracked in exactly the same place (actually not quite as bad as your image - only a couple of small splits lengthwise). Trouble was, the hose is two different sizes on each end. Spent 40 mins trying parts stores that could only offer two hoses joined by a union and then trying the dealership - who said the entire 'harness' is all that they sell - 60$.

I siliconed up the splits and taped it with electrical tape. Lets see how that works.

Tjabo
01-29-2011, 01:05 PM
Here's what I found on my wife's van, and it totally fixed the problem. Since I used 3/8" hose, and sealed it onto the smaller 5/16" tube at the end of the tube that doesn't split by clamping it onto the small tube, this should be a reliable, long-term fix that is almost free.
the steel tube on the down side of the torn hose is a bit too big for a proper fit with 5/16" hose (part of the problem with this piece of hose I imagine), I replaced it with a short chunk of 3/8" fuel injection hose. The 3/8" hose didn't fit tight enough for my satisfaction onto the 5/16" barbed plastic tubing that slides into the top of the suspect hose, so I put a little spring clamp on that. I think that tightened it up enough, but time will tell!

. . .

Oh yeah, this same 5/16" tube runs forward to a port of some sort with a screw-on cap. The port has barbed plastic 5/16" ends on it that connect to the plastic tubes on either side with 5/16" rubber hose. They were cracked also, so I replaced them with 5/16" fuel injection hose.

Mopar Madness
02-07-2011, 06:13 PM
Eureka! Problem solved! Amazing how some things work out in life. I could have spent more money getting this thing fixed than the car is worth. But something happened quite by accident.

My emissions inspection was coming due and I had codes for minor evap leak and major evap leak. Using a code reader, I turned them off (reset the MIL); however, when starting the engine the MIL lit immediately. I knew time had run out and I would have to take it into a shop for repairs. I called one of the local garages that had a smoke tester and had them go over it. They could not find a leak. I then figured to the $ dealer I would go.

Then one day my van was blocking the wife's car in the driveway so she took my van to the grocery store. Upon returning, she inadvertently left the key on. The next morning the battery was dead. After re-charging the battery I noticed that the MIL was no longer lit. After driving the van for a couple of hundred miles (a few times daily) for about a week, the MIL still was not lit. I put the code reader to it and found that there were no codes and the OBDII had passed all the readiness checks! I took it in for emissions testing and passed with no issues.

Here is my analysis. When the MIL is tripped there are (at least) 3 things that can cause it: 1) an actual fault/problem, 2) a bum sensor, or 3) a computer (OBDII) problem. Evidently, forcing a reboot of the OBDII computer (by disconnecting power) cleared up the problem. There must have been a glitch within the computer. It probably had never been rebooted for years (since the battery was changed).

Imagine what I could have been charged had some mechanic decided to replace the evap system, component by component.

Tjabo
02-07-2011, 07:17 PM
I hate to be a wet blanket, but please let us know if it comes back on. It's possible that you haven't put it through enough of the necessary cycles yet for the test to be re-run? However, if your code reader tells you that there aren't any tests pending and that everything is truly good, then maybe it went exactly like you said! I guess I'm just envisioning that the smoke machine might not have illuminated the tiny hole that can be the cause of these codes, and the MIL might rear its ugly head again one of these days...

Mopar Madness
02-07-2011, 09:20 PM
It's possible that you haven't put it through enough of the necessary cycles yet for the test to be re-run...

During the emissions test, the test center connects an analyzer to the ODBII port to determine the status of all tests. If I had not put my van through enough cycles for the test to be run, then I would not have passed the emissions test because the system would still be set at FAIL.

When codes are cleared (MIL turned off) using a code reader, the status is set to FAIL. The status will not be changed to OK until the tests are run and a successful result is obtained.

phantom 309
08-01-2011, 10:10 AM
I,m heading off down the 442/445 1684 codes path,.

will see what transpires and will take pics,.

great info in this thread.

Nick

an03&itwasfree
08-03-2011, 11:16 AM
I must echo the thanks for the info in this thread. To add to it there is another 5/16 line that goes to the intake, under & to the rear (of the van) of the intake (on my 3.3) that was also split & leaking. Also the vent line at the fuel filler was pulled apart at the connection. The vent line from the tank was pulled taut & actually didn't reach the hard line; I bent the hard line to reach & it is solid now. No more CEL for about $4. The funny thing is I bought fuel line to fix our golf cart that morning & I couldn't remember if it was 5/16 or 1/4 so I bought both. The cart used 1/4, but I had the 5/16 when i needed it for the van.

phantom 309
08-04-2011, 10:48 AM
what a coincidence, a reply to this thread as i just came back in from a trip and the light is out,.
the culprit looks like a gas cap that doesn't tighten down properly,.
i went over every hose and looked as clamps and i was so disappointed that nothing was rotten or loose,. so in a dejected frame of mind i re-read the thread and remembered i didn't pay any attention to the gas cap,. sure enough the wifey seems to think that tightening it down until it clicks is actually not good for it,.so i got here to read this thread with me,.
took 4-5 trips before the light went out,

bittersweet when you find the problem and its so simple eh? I can't tell everyone some wild and fancy story about finding tiny cracked hoses or loose clamps or some other problem involving great detective work,. *sigh* :biggrin:
thanks for this thread and info guys,.

Nick

spacecoast
08-06-2011, 01:11 PM
Well, I FINALLY FOUND IT...had a nasty split in the hose assembly located under the hood, next to the air filter box. As reported in previous posts by others, these two hoses are ususal suspects since they are exposed to the engine heat. The hose that had the service valve is the one that was split...the hoses that allowed the service valve to be spliced in were the bad ones. I could have re-built the assembly, but I ended up ordering the OEM assembly instead. I also replace several hoses under the car, associated with those canisters, and one of those had a crack, but I don't think it was leaking yet.

phantom 309
08-06-2011, 04:49 PM
AARGH!! the light is back on,.

i knew it was too easy,..

Nick

phantom 309
08-08-2011, 12:07 AM
went under then van and the skinny long hose coming down to the black box has a split in it,.

i,m glad i knew where to look,.
Nick

phantom 309
08-09-2011, 11:57 PM
so i changed the hose between the two black box thingy's it had a split,. i changed the skinny hose coming down to the back black box/cannister,.
i disconnected the battery while i was doing it,.
but the engine light is still on,.
how long does the battery need to be diconnected to clear codes??

thanks
nick

phantom 309
08-30-2011, 09:58 PM
well nobody answered so,.
after 2 weeks the check engine light has gone out,. and using the overhead and speedo,. i have no codes!! Ta DAAH!!

thanks to all the posters here for all the valuable info,.

nick

Dodgeboy77
08-31-2011, 11:29 AM
Just to throw my 2 cents in: I had the code pop up a few weeks ago and traced it to that pesky hose connection at the bottom of the air filter. One hose was split. I had some braided hose of the right size laying around and replaced the piece. I have an inexpensive OBD2 scanner which I used to clear the code and it hasn't returned.

Bill

Nails1
10-02-2011, 11:22 PM
Add another to the long list of folks helped by this thread. After 3 visits to the mechanic and not fixing this small evap leak cel code, I decided to have a go at fixing it myself. Spent last night reading this entire thread and taking mental notes. Went to work on it today. Sure enough, the 5/16 rubber hose under & behind the air filter box was cracked. Local Autozone counter rep had a piece of 5/16 hose in his trash can. Just gave it to me. Took a bit of muscle to get it on the end of the stainless line. 15 minutes later it's all back together. The pics and advice on this thread are awesome. Thanks again!

bradleigh1977
10-03-2011, 04:02 AM
I do not have a light on or anything but when i got my 03 grand voyager ( uk right hand drive ) the air con wasnt cold. So got a man round and he filled it up.But we notced it didn't have dust caps to go on the ends where he vacums the system.....anyway when he finished, air con was freezing....after a week, the coldness had gone...and when i actually got some new caps for the valves i noticed that one of the valves was bubbling green. So my question is could the system go from freezing to empty in a week? from a small leak on the valve? as i have caps now should i get the system refilled, and test again or try and get it tested properly before re filling? The caps seem very airtight when they are on...


Also this 5/16 pipe, is it a case of pulling off and swapping? and as easy as that? as ill check if mines bad later...

bradleigh1977
10-03-2011, 04:22 AM
I do not have a light on or anything but when i got my 03 grand voyager ( uk right hand drive ) the air con wasnt cold. So got a man round and he filled it up.But we notced it didn't have dust caps to go on the ends where he vacums the system.....anyway when he finished, air con was freezing....after a week, the coldness had gone...and when i actually got some new caps for the valves i noticed that one of the valves was bubbling green. So my question is could the system go from freezing to empty in a week? from a small leak on the valve? as i have caps now should i get the system refilled, and test again or try and get it tested properly before re filling? The caps seem very airtight when they are on...


Also this 5/16 pipe, is it a case of pulling off and swapping? and as easy as that? as ill check if mines bad later...

please ignore me i thought this was about the air con evap sorry........

CargoGuy
10-03-2011, 04:43 PM
My Evap leak fix. ( 2004, Ltd. AWD )

First, thanks to all who put me in right direction.

Did gas cap ( Stant, locking, $ 9 Rockauto.com ) not prob. I did 'under air box' , but hoses looked good. Replaced anyway and used proper hose clamps. ( BTW mine does NOT have that valve fitting w. green cap ).

Got out Mr. Creeper and found problem (s ) under drivers seat. 2 hoses on left of large canister. One is formed and a dealer item ( # 14089002, $ 10 ). Other std. Hose.
Replaced both and problem gone.

Should note I found the fitment of correct size hose is difficult, very tight fit ( not the dealer one ), for both under air box and under car, even using dish soap. Plus difficult to really 'go at it' from a creeper. I carefully beveled inside edge of hose with an xacto knife to allow it to get started over the 'flare' and succeeded.
( fingers crossed, am trying to add pics for first time )

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3915&d=1317668474
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3916&d=1317668535
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3917&d=1317668571

MASSMINI
10-04-2011, 02:47 PM
Thanks to all who have documented the small leaky hoses under the air filter. The attached pic shows the two guilty hoses. Note that they are separated by a tee fitting.
3928

gbaumgratz
11-16-2011, 10:23 PM
Tally up another one for the under air filter plastic to stainless short rubber hose. Mine was nasty cracked - I replaced with another piece of 5/16" and reset the MIL. Time will tell if that was definitely it, but my guess is it's the correct culprit.

sselander
12-09-2011, 12:17 AM
Chrysler has a TSB 18-009-01 dated Mar. 30, 2001 which is called "EVAP System - Leak Detection Pump Operation Information"
and is applicable to the 4th gen vans:
http://www.wjjeeps.com/tsb/tsb_wj_1800901.pdf

That TSB points you to a bulletin called "LEAK DETECTION PUMP (LDP) OPERATION AND DIAGNOSIS"
Publication No. 81-170-00006
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/ebrock63/2009-01-25_221713_tsb.pdf

The codes below are mentioned and it basically shows how the evap system functions

P0442
P0455
P0456
P1486
P1494
P1495

ThreeCarSeats
06-09-2012, 11:44 AM
/Years later.../ Thx for the great posts. Threw a gas cap at this and did pull the + battery cable to clear the errors but it came back after ~100 miles. Will check the 'easy' hoses first.

I didn't realize after you clear the codes (and Check Engine light is out) that you typically have several "readiness monitors" that are not set until you drive it for a certain number of miles. I tried to get through the test by filling the tank and clearing the codes but had the following readiness monitors not set and failed the test again:

Catalyst, Evaporative system, Oxygen sensor, Oxygen sensor heater

No scamming the system....

norulesjustgo
06-15-2012, 02:10 AM
Just fixed mine. The hose that connects from the EVAP Canister to the plastic tube that runs from the drivers side front to the gas tank had a 1 inch crack at the bend that comes from the EVAP canister. Replaced, cleared code and hasn't been back since. Also replaced my gas cap as it felt really loose.

raven_TC
07-23-2012, 11:22 PM
The 3.8L vans (only 3.3) do not have the 5/16" dia tubing with tee under the air cleaner, correct? I looked and didnt find a tee with 5/16" tubing on either side.

Mick750F
12-29-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm not sure if this has been covered yet so here goes...I had both the PO442 and PO455 codes in my '02 T&C LXI 3.8. A visual inspection of the usual suspect areas by me turned up no split hoses. Some of them look like they've already been replaced. I took it in for a smoke test and no leaks were detected so the mechanic suggested replacing the leak detection pump and the gas cap. After the work the codes were erased and didn't appear again...until about a week later. At first I thought I might have not screwed down the filler cap enough so I erased the codes and they popped back up again. I'm pretty much stumped here. Any ideas?

Great forum by the way, it's helped me out a lot just searching the posts for answers.

Mike

Tiberius
09-28-2013, 04:31 PM
Good to know that that works with the new Drive Clean computer check, rather than the older Sniff tester up the tailpipe test.
Still needs to be fixed...Some shops will charge you 2 times to get a conditional pass..This Drive clean thing needs to go away..!.


I replaced under air filter all those 5/16" small pipes but unfortunately my code came back, next step i am thinking is to look under the van near charcoal canister all those pipes and replacing them with new ones and also new metal clips every where hopefull it will fix the problem, for 2001 Dodge caravan,, 3.3 ltr,

One more info for folks:
In Toronto, if you have 0442 & 0455 codes, you still can go for emission in Toronto, it will not fail because od these codes,,I just did mine and Mechanic told me it will not bother emmission test and my van passed the emission test while my check engine light is there with these 2 codes,Thanks

Tiberius
09-28-2013, 04:34 PM
Don't forget the hose from the air cleaner to the valve cover..gets hard and cracks after a few years..
And the ones under the air cleaner May need clamps to get a good seal. When in doubt, swap them out..you're in there already..

Tiberius
09-28-2013, 04:43 PM
HAd this perennial code pop up on my 03 GC, 3.3, and did some sniffing around..
I have an OTC code reader , and cleared it a few times this month..came back on..
OK, now time to dig in..Read this thread, used all the great info here in previous posts, and found the 2 one inch long hoses on the Green capped access port cracked all over..
Swapped them out, and clamped them for good measure; then went under the driver's seat are to look at the vapour canister hoses..One of the plastic clamps had, indeed, broken, so swapped out that for a metal one, and sprayed it with lube to protect it, as the hose was ok..hard, but not cracked..something to check in another 2 years..
Long story short, all the above posts about where to look, and how Easy and Cheap it is to fix should make ANY owner of a GC in this age range break out a few minor tools to save Hundreds!! Thanks for all the info, and SO glad I joined this group SO long ago..!
(Forgive my Minimal posts, cause when it's working, it's all good, time for a Brewski!)
:biggrin:

04anniversaryedition
09-29-2013, 10:49 PM
Good to know that that works with the new Drive Clean computer check, rather than the older Sniff tester up the tailpipe test.
Still needs to be fixed...Some shops will charge you 2 times to get a conditional pass..This Drive clean thing needs to go away..!.
Interesting to know that myself, I would think it'd fail with the new computer check ,guess not. Yeah I don't think the drive clean thing will go away, for some reason I feel that we'll end up having a yearly inspection soon.

Tiberius what part of Brampton you in? I'm in the west end.